July 25, 2008 7:08 AM
Will Obama's European trip backfire?
Barack Obama's European tour has played to large and enthusiastic crowds but how is it playing with undecided voters back home?
The Los Angeles Times reports:
Republicans are moving to exploit this vulnerability, trying to encourage unease among voters by building the impression that Obama's overseas trip and other actions show he has a sense of entitlement that suggests he believes the White House is already his.In Ohio on Thursday, McCain hit that theme: "I'd love to give a speech in Germany . . . but I'd much prefer to do it as president of the United States, rather than as a candidate for the office of presidency."
Obama also faces discontent from some of Hillary Rodham Clinton's most ardent supporters, who are put off by what they describe as a campaign marked by hubris and a style dedicated to televised extravaganzas.
Susie Tompkins Buell, a major Clinton fundraiser, said: "The Clinton supporters that I know are bothered by these rock-star events. These spectacles are more about the candidate than they are about the party and the issues that we care about."
Obama is to return home Saturday after a nine-day trip that has produced some of the most memorable images of the campaign. Speaking in Berlin before a sea of young faces, the presumed Democratic nominee echoed a famous line from President Reagan, who, at Brandenburg Gate, implored Soviet counterpart Mikhail S. Gorbachev to "tear down this wall."
"The walls between races and tribes, natives and immigrants, Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down," Obama told the warmly enthusiastic crowd in Tiergarten park. He spoke from a stage constructed near the Victory Column, a soaring monument to Prussian military triumphs.
Powerful as the image was, back home some voters wondered whether the trip was necessary. Both Obama and McCain had been invited Thursday to a cancer forum organized by cyclist Lance Armstrong's foundation at Ohio State University.
McCain showed; Obama did not. Some in the crowd took notice.
Ann Marie Jones, a stay-at-home mother whose 10-year-old son was diagnosed with cancer in September, said she had leaned toward Obama "until he didn't show up tonight."
"I feel like I understand what he's doing over there, but I think he needed to be here tonight for this," she said.
Jones, a 40-year-old Republican from Aledo, Texas, said she was troubled by the duration and scale of Obama's overseas trip. "I think we have a lot of things going on with our children -- many different things going on here in the United States that need our attention."
Does Obama's trip make him look presidential or presumptuous?
July 25, 2008
7:46 AM
Fool me once writes:
Thinking Americans have already seen through the PR charade and realized this is very much the Obama they have come to know. Style in the absence of substance. Promises in the absence of a record of success. Change as a metaphor for chameleon shifts in ideology and political triangulation.
A snake oil salesman if there ever was one.
July 25, 2008
8:21 AM
faye nielsen writes:
i do not like obama, i do not trust obama, and i feel like he has fool alot of people. i think down deep, he is the anitchrist, that god has spoken about in the bible. if he's not he is one of his worker.
July 25, 2008
8:21 AM
Snake Oil Smells writes:
Obama is a good show man. He is all about change, loose pocket change of an additional 9.5 million dollars of taxpayer money for campaign security. I can't believe any citizen will consider his international campaign tour as qualifying him to be experienced in foreign affairs.
At the same time the city of Denver mayor seems to think the DNC shouldn't pay for gas like average citizens. Isn't Obama opposed to tax relief on fuel? Oh that's right, the DNC are the elite along with their candidate.
Give me a break! Change? Hope? It sure looks like the good ole boy network at work with politics and special favors as usual.
July 25, 2008
8:29 AM
You won't fool me twice writes:
I heard that the Messiah was going to part the sea and walk back when he is done playing like he is the acting President.
He reminds me of Barney Fife of the Any Griffith show.
Please no one give him a real bullet.
July 25, 2008
8:43 AM
history buff writes:
I don't think there will be a backlash back home. The usual WACKOS will make their usual WACKO COMMENTS. Take a look at the WACKOS who have already shared their disturbed POVS this morning. No wonder the country is going to the dogs. The dogmatic WACKOS who don't have more sense than a common mutt will do anything their talk radio masters tell them to do. These are very disturbing times for America when ignorance and stupidity are accepted as valid political points of view.
July 25, 2008
8:45 AM
MongoLikeCandy writes:
"Ich bin ein Beginner!"
July 25, 2008
9:00 AM
Obama 08 writes:
Don't you dare question the victory that Mr. O has achieved in Europe!
Ignore the fact that the rock concert before the speech is what drew the crowd.
Ignore the fact that -- although he wanted to give the speech at the Brandenburg Gate -- he ended up not being allowed to do so. Some silly reason like: he had not earned the right.
Ignore the fact that the Europeans see him as an oddity: a candidate presuming to present himself as a president.
I command you to ignore all this! He will be a great president; one of the greatest of all time! His 100 days in office have proven his potential!
Obama 08!
Change you can believe in!
July 25, 2008
9:16 AM
Believer writes:
Faye - I've thought some of the same things, but a few things are missing from the endtimes prophesy in the Bible. First off, the Temple has not been rebuilt, nor do I know of any plans to do so anytime soon. Secondly, we are nowhere near to using one world currency, though the dollar's collapse could hasten that. Further, the brewing tensions with Iran could cause conflict, but from this week's Time magazine article, it looks like cooler heads are prevailing amongst Iran's leadership. My vote: Obama is shady, but not likely the antichrist.
July 25, 2008
9:25 AM
Tyler writes:
Living in Germany and being a US citizen gives me such a wonderful perspective into what the Germans actually think about Obama's visit. Most of the Germans I have talked with about it were a little bit annoyed by the Obama visit. They felt he first needed to be the US president before coming and speaking. The reason why they like Obama so much is that they believe (and rightly so) that he will bow down to their political world view. In essence be subservient to socialism. That and in my German language class of the 25 nations represented only 1 girl for Iraq was for John McCain. When I asked why the others supported Obama it was because "he is a good man", and "he is going to give us money". To which I about fell out of my chair!!!!!
July 25, 2008
9:36 AM
40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies writes:
Over the top. The Germans would have been far mo' comfortable if Adolph Bush (Baghdad Buthcher) had delivered a speech. Bush (UCMJ felon) has murdered more than 200K Muslims. Hitler wiped several thousand (North Africa War) off the map too. Along comes Beirut Butcher, Ariel Sharon (Beirut Butcher), who bagged his 25K, and chump Karadzic, with his measly 8000. Virgins are as scarce as hen's teeth.
July 25, 2008
9:41 AM
Kevin J Jones writes:
""The walls between races and tribes, natives and immigrants, Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down," Obama told the warmly enthusiastic crowd in Tiergarten park."
We could have used a few more walls to keep out the 9/11 hijackers.
Obama's going around talking like he's at a high school Model UN conference. Maybe he really wants to be UN Secretary-General?
So many Americans are making obvious jokes about Germans liking oratorical Great Leaders. Obama would have been better off campaigning in key swing states.
July 25, 2008
9:41 AM
history buff writes:
Let's not forget that John McCain met five people at a supermarket yesterday. The liberal media, to be fair, should be there to cover McCain's momentous event. McCain made the earth shattering statement that he didn't know how much it costs to buy a gallon of milk, and that he was surprised how much it cost. The liberal media should not ignore McCain because he may tell the American people something else important, like parking spaces in suburban shopping malls are often too narrow, creating the possibility of fender benders and causing a rise in insurance premiums for the average American driver.
July 25, 2008
9:55 AM
Observer writes:
40 acres - Looks like the liquor stores are open for the day. Are you happy now that you can buy on Sundays?
July 25, 2008
10:17 AM
Kevin J Jones writes:
"Ignore the fact that the rock concert before the speech is what drew the crowd."
Oh, was there a rock concert before his German appearance too?
The supersize "Obama rally" in Oregon was preceded by a free concert by The Decembrists, but that discrediting fact took a while to get out.
July 25, 2008
10:19 AM
Shaggy aka Obamas typical bitter white person writes:
""The walls between races and tribes, natives and immigrants, Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down," Obama told the warmly enthusiastic crowd in Tiergarten park."----Kevin J Jones
Didn't Reagan also say something like this to Mikhail Gorbachev.
I think Obama is pissing many American Voters off by acting like he is President.
I wonder if he still plays Cowboy and Indian..hehehe
The whole World is seeing how immature this dweeb is and his polls show it.
The guy has so much money yet he couldn't close the deal On Hillary.
So then the Democrats kept saying once he becomes the nominee all the Democrats would back him and his poll numbers would rise.
Hasn't happened.
In fact McCain keeps closing in..hehehe
The Democrats kept saying once a nominee is picked they will have no problem raising money for the DNC.
Hasn't happened.
The fact is is that this was suppose to be Hillary's election...I will bet money The Looper and TaxRitter, among many many other Democrats never even heard of Obama 16 months ago.
They are all Hillary supporters.
That is why they tried so hard to get the DNC here.
After the World see's how bad the DNC turns out and how well the RNC turns out the tables will drastically turn.
People will see that the Democrats aren't qualified to run the WH and Obama is nothing but a front man.
Democrats get so giddy, so early on, that people tire of them.
Price at the pump will be Obamas biggest down fall.
Obama says no to drilling.
McCain says yes.
McCain will be our next President.
July 25, 2008
10:48 AM
DennyP writes:
MongoLikeCandy writes:
"Ich bin ein Beginner!"
A+++ Very funny!!
July 25, 2008
10:57 AM
history buff writes:
Congress is starting to do something about oil speculation by presenting a bill that the WH will probably veto. But the SEC and the courts are also starting to key in on speculators.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080722/bs_nm/semgroup_dc
Like all things GOP, the drill, drill, drill policy is simple minded, like tax cuts are always best, because economics is much more complicated than that. Tax cuts during a war and allowing rampant speculation of strategic resources during a time of war are unprecedented, but it is apparent that the Neo-Convicts, like most unqualified people, don't care what policy has been, they are sure they are right, and the reason they have not always been recognized as superior is because of the liberal establishment. I can't wait to the Cheney Gang is out of office.
July 25, 2008
11:00 AM
Kurt S writes:
Good stuff.
I've heard it said that 2008 will officially be "The Year the Media Died".
This is not a rant against the liberal bias which has proven to exist. That has becone a fact of life with which non-liberals are accustomed to living.
What will ultiately hurt the media is their uncritical glorification and shameless promotion of candidate who is the most self-aggrandizing, calculating politician who has ever run for president in modern times. He's milk. Like kittens, they lap it up and bat their adoring eyes as it dribbles down their chins.
Never mind that this is the first time that a presidential campaign has ever been waged in france and germany (and Lord Obama could not be bothered to turn the camera's off and visit the troops).
Its everything about this guy that gets no scrutiny or vetting of any kind. For example:
-He's half-black, but raised exclusively by whites in Hawaii and attended elite white Ivy League schools. This doesnt make him bad but how is it he can carry the mantel of Martin Luther King? Is he more white than black?
-Can anyone, ANYONE name something he accomplished in Illinois or D.C.? Did he start his presidential run before or after he sat down for the first time in his Senate seat?
-Reverend Wright (old news), but did he not clearly join the church to be more "black" politically? I dont believe he believes what that fool says, but does it bother anyone that he is such a chameleon?
-He spent 8 years as a community organizer. What's that? What did he accomplish?
-He's the most monied candidate in the history of politics (and negated his promise to use public funding, yet he is the man of the people?
-Flip-flops. Dont get me started. He set a timetable before ever going to Iraq or talking to anyone on the ground. Why? It played politically to beat Hilliary. Now, with the improvement with the surge (that he denounced but has now backed away from his denouncement), he's "refining" his position. Does a Commander-in Chief have luxury of "refining" decisions based on polls?
-He jumping up and down about the importance of Afghanistan, but NEVER held one meeting as chairman of the Senate subcommitte on Afghanistan .
You get the picture. He's like Eddie Haskell, charming, always trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Mr.and Mrs. C. Usually, after New Hampshire, we know more about a candidate and he has been more vetted than Obama has been, with the election only three months away.
He is pulling a fast one on the lazy, self-indugement, unprofessional media. The only good news is, the American people are smarter.
July 25, 2008
11:35 AM
Ezana writes:
There is no liberal bias. You expect the media to be even handed even when the truth isn't. The republicans have no legs to stand on this year and are crying when someone reports that. At this point they are so desperate they are using PR firms to perpetuate falsehoods! I get push polls that treat the Muslim thing as fact (even Fox acknowledges it's false). The fact that there is so much false information about Obama floating around illustrates that. One in 10 think he went to a madrassa. One in ten is a lot of people. Pathetic soulless liars!
Remember when the McCain campaign was up Obama's nose about not leaving the country? Too desperate. Too funny. Maybe this is about the old fart knowing that there is no way he would have a crowd of 200,000 waving American flags if he went. Though, that was a great picture of McCain in front of the cheese his party has made it so hard to afford. It blows my mind how many reversals McCain doesn't get called on. First we're in great shape, then he acknowledges the mortgage crisis, first global warming is no big deal then it is, first he's against drilling then he is for it, first Gramm resigns than he is an adviser again... The Sunni awakening happened as a result of our surge, then it didn't, what's the difference between Sunni and Shi'a again?
July 25, 2008
11:38 AM
Anonymous writes:
"This is not a rant against the liberal bias which has proven to exist."
LOLOL
What proof? Are wasn't that fantasies are proof of anything except that someone tends to fantasize.
"how is it he can carry the mantel of Martin Luther King? Is he more white than black?"
Little buddy, MLK said he had a dream that someday all men will be judged not by the color of their skin but the content of their character. I don't think you understand what is MLK's mantel. It sounds like you are more interested in the color of the skin part, the part that MLK said shouldn't be the basis of our decisions.
Since the premises has no foundation, neither do the conclusions.
July 25, 2008
11:43 AM
jay writes:
i notice a very similar trend with the posts against obama on this thread.
all emotion and no policy.
much like the anti-hillary folks we saw over the last year, these people just "don't like her", "don't trust her"...voting with their "feelings" instead of policy facts.
July 25, 2008
11:46 AM
Anonymous writes:
'The Sunni awakening happened as a result of our surge, then it didn't, what's the difference between Sunni and Shi'a again?'
One believes that only direct descendants of Mohammad can be Muslim clerics, and the other believes that any Muslim can. Sort of like how some of the Christian religions believe only men can be ministers, and others believe women can be too - only we don't kill people, especially innocent women and children in crowded pizzarias, buses, and markets over it.
July 25, 2008
11:51 AM
JEFF writes:
Jay writes "all emotion no policy'
SOUNDS LIKE OBAMA
July 25, 2008
11:54 AM
Ezana writes:
"only we don't kill people, especially innocent women and children in crowded pizzarias, buses, and markets over it."
What do you call Koresh and Oklahoma city bombers? How about the Christians in Northern Ireland? The columbine shooters? As a nation we just do it by hitting a button looking through a video screen.
On the white black issue...MLK had his phones tapped and a good hunk of the white public turned against him when he spoke out against Vietnam. The difference now is most of the public thinks Iraq was a bad idea!
July 25, 2008
12:18 PM
nowhereman writes:
If this 'travelin' fool' (sorry, Elvin) is suppose to be a stand alone kind of guy, why does he ride others coattails?
A speech in Germany paraphrasing Ronald Reagan,
wanting to give an exceptance speech in a stadium like JFK, and then give it on the anniversary of MLK's 'Dream' speech.
No originality in this candidate.
July 25, 2008
12:35 PM
Nick Danger writes:
Ezana, why three times? Just type in caps if you want to shout.
obama is a socialist.
Why does he always seem to be apologizing for all of the perceived failures of the US?
And why after his rant about Americans not speaking a foreign language did he speak in English in all of his speeches?
July 25, 2008
12:37 PM
Shaggy aka Obamas typical bitter white person writes:
I do kinda feel sorry for the plastic messiah.
He knows we need to beef up the troops in Afganistan but he is going to be attacked by the very group who got him to where he is and that is move.on, mediamatters and the daily kos....
They are the same groups who attacked Hillary for supporting the war..hehehe
When Obama said he would listen to our Generals referring to the Iraq War and then he had to retract because that was not popular with the far left wackos.
Talk about a puppet whose strings are being pulled by the far left.
Anyhoo, people are now starting to wake up and his polls are dropping as people see how he is just the front man in a short lived Rock Band
Remember, the reason he made it this far was because he voted against the war and said if elected would end it immediately.
Now that has changed to 16 months.
He is afraid to admit the surge is a success because..yes you know...his puppet masters will destroy him.
This stuttering fool can't stand up to anyone...
That is a fact.
July 25, 2008
12:41 PM
Nick Danger writes:
Ezana, why three times? Just type in caps if you want to shout.
Why after his rant about Americans not speaking a foreign language did he speak in English in all of his speeches?
An interesting item about the messiahs canceled visit in Germany was that he canceled it after he was told he couldn't bring the press. No photo op, no visit. So he went an worked out with a fawning female reporter.
July 25, 2008
1:03 PM
GaldysKravitz writes:
Face it...GW Bush' last European trip was not as warmly received and likely won't be on his future trips before he leaves office. It would be more of an Ich Bin Ein Dumkoff!
July 25, 2008
1:13 PM
Not Impressed writes:
I'm glad he went on a tour of the world for the first time.
Now people are realizing how phony he is.
He isn't even his own man, he owned by the far left.
He is a disgrace to go over seas and criticize Americans and our Country.
July 25, 2008
1:14 PM
MongoLikeCandy writes:
I hear after the rally in Berlin, Obama kissed Dieter's monkey... and then they danced.
He's soooooooo coooooooool!
I just want to hug everybody right now.
July 25, 2008
1:23 PM
MongoLikeCandy writes:
Hey... as a citizen of the world, does he get to choose his tax jurisdiction? Or does he just file directly at the U.N.?
July 25, 2008
1:30 PM
Ezana writes:
Nick, why twice? I hit submit when the screen froze just like you.
"Why after his rant about Americans not speaking a foreign language did he speak in English in all of his speeches?"
Because he is an American (contrary to popular belief) and English is his native language. If you compare us to other 1st world countries we are the lest poly lingual. It is just a practical concern to be part of a global economy we can't be so arrogant that we expect everyone to speak our language. Your Messiah story is just sad. How about an attack on something legitimate.
Shaggy wow you do sound bitter! He is dropping in the polls because people think offshore drilling today will lower their oil prices tomorrow, because one in ten still think he is a Muslim, and an army of repub funded PR firms are attacking from the shadows with now accountability for the lies they are perpetuating or the cost-plus system of paying contractors to burn whole trucks when they get a flat.
The surge is a band aid like the walls all over Baghdad built to separate factions or the militias we PAID (with cash) to fight on our side. The surge is irrelevant it doesn't justify a war Bush lied to make happen and it doesn't justify an occupation decades long when we've known for the past 6/7 years that Bin Laden is in Iraq. Obama admitting anything is pointless. The war still needs to end.
Just one legitimate attack would be nice! This is just sad! "He's a lying Muslim because he looks like, one! yuk yuk yuk."; "he's a slippery intellectual and I don't trust his fancy book learnin'"; "He said we're not loved everywhere for everything we do all the time! Traitor"
July 25, 2008
1:43 PM
Obama's phony photo ops writes:
Why? How? What makes people think Obama's overseas "trip" is anything but a photo op for the election? A few speaking engagements across the pond do not a president make. Obama still lacks substantive experience in so many ways, that it's scary to even contemplate him as president. And please, don't even start comparing Obama to the likes of JFK and others. Not even close.
July 25, 2008
1:45 PM
Not Impressed writes:
The media is stupid in giving Obama so much attention because now people are starting to understand how immature he is.
The more attention he seems to get, the lower his ratings go.
If I were him I would stay away from the media but beings he is an elitist and is in love with himself, he cannot drag himself away from all the attention. He is eating it up and thinking it is helping him. That is why he wanted to go to Invesco field, so can admire him.
He will be his own demise.
July 25, 2008
2:12 PM
Shaggy aka Obamas typical bitter white person writes:
Obama reminds me of a serial killer who keeps getting braver and braver because he thinks no one is going to catch him.
Then the killer starts to make a game out of it and slowly starts to reveal little hints about who he is until finally the puzzle is put together and he is exposed.
The reason the killer thinks this way is because he is narcistic.
Obama is narcistic and thinks he is fooling all of us.
It is just a matter of time before Americans understand that Obama is a fake with ZERO credibility, experience and immature.
July 25, 2008
2:16 PM
MongoLikeCandy writes:
Memorable moments from speeches given by American's in Berlin:
"Ich bin ein Berliner."
-JFK
"Mr. Gorbechov, tear down this wall."
-Reagan
THE END
July 25, 2008
2:21 PM
Dom. writes:
Senator Obama has gone to Europe as the presumed President of the United States of America. He has indeed convinced Europeans that he is their man. So, why do we need to hold elections in November?
July 25, 2008
2:27 PM
McCain: the master of flip flop writes:
1. Social Security Privatization. John McCain has apparently learned the lesson that the more President Bush spoke about his Social Security privatization scheme, the less popular it became. On Friday, Mr. Straight Talk proclaimed at a New Hampshire event, “I’m not for, quote, privatizing Social Security. I never have been. I never will be.” Sadly, McCain and his advisers like ousted HP CEO Carly Fiorina are on record declaring fidelity to the idea of diverting Social Security dollars into private accounts. On November 18, 2004, for example, McCain announced, “Without privatization, I don’t see how you can possibly, over time, make sure that young Americans are able to receive Social Security benefits.” And in March 2003, McCain backed his President, declaring, “As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it - along the lines that President Bush proposed.” As they say, let’s go to the videotape.
2. Raising - and Slashing - Defense Spending. As Steve Benen noted Friday, John McCain was also for boosting American defense spending before he was against it. In the November 2007 issue of Foreign Affairs, McCain argued “we can also afford to spend more on national defense, which currently consumes less than four cents of every dollar that our economy generates - far less than what we spent during the Cold War.” But facing the $2 trillion budgetary hole the McCain tax plan is forecast to produce (a sea of red ink even the Wall Street Journal noticed), Team McCain changed its tune. As Forbes scoffed in amazement:
“McCain’s top economic adviser, Doug Holtz-Eakin, blithely supposes that cuts in defense spending could make up for reducing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25% and the subsequent shrinkage in federal revenues. Get that? The national security candidate wants to cut spending on our national security. Wait until the generals and the admirals hear that.”
3. First Term Balanced Budget Pledge. With its on-again/off-again/on-again promise to balance the budget by January 2013, the McCain campaign executed that rarest of political maneuvers, the 360. During a February 15th rally in La Crosse, Wisconsin, “McCain promised he’d offer a balanced budget by the end of his first term.” But just days later, McCain’s senior economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin announced a deficit-ending target of 2017. In mid-April, Holtz-Eakin proclaimed, “I would like the next president not to talk about deficit reduction.” McCain, too, signaled the retreat from his first-term balance budget commitment, explaining to Chris Matthews on April 15th that “economic conditions are reversed.”
Apparently economic conditions have improved dramatically since then. On June 6, Holtz-Eakin squared the circle, announcing, “That plan, when appropriately phased in, as it has always been intended to be, will bring the budget to balance by the end of his first term.”
4. The Media’s Treatment of Hillary Clinton. No doubt, John McCain suffers from recurring bouts of selective amnesia. And some episodes take only days to manifest themselves. During his disastrous “green screen” speech on June 3, McCain reached out to Hillary Clinton’s supporters by proclaiming, “The media often overlooked how compassionately she spoke to the concerns and dreams of millions of Americans, and she deserves a lot more appreciation than she sometimes received.” But by June 7, McCain denied to Newsweek that his media critique never passed his lips, “I did not–that was in prepared remarks, and I did not–I’m not in the business of commenting on the press and their coverage or not coverage.”
5. The Estate Tax. Just days before his contortionist act on Social Security, John McCain reversed course on the estate tax as well. On June 8, 2006, McCain on the Senate floor expressed his agreement with Teddy Roosevelt that “most great civilized countries have an income tax and an inheritance tax” and “in my judgment both should be part of our system of federal taxation.” But after years of battling Republican colleagues dead-set on dismantling the so-called “death tax” and instead promoting a $5 million trigger, on Tuesday John McCain sounded the retreat. Now, he insists, “the estate tax is one of the most unfair tax laws on the books.”
6. FISA, Domestic Surveillance and Telecom Immunity. When it comes to the Bush administration’s program of domestic spying on Americans, McCain has performed similar logical gymnastics. On December 20, 2007, McCain suggested to the Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Charles Savage that President Bush had clearly crossed the line. As Wired’s Ryan Singel noted:
“I think that presidents have the obligation to obey and enforce laws that are passed by Congress and signed into law by the president, no matter what the situation is,” McCain said. The Globe’s Charlie Savage pushed further, asking , “So is that a no, in other words, federal statute trumps inherent power in that case, warrantless surveillance?” To which McCain answered, “I don’t think the president has the right to disobey any law.”
But on June 2, McCain adviser Holtz-Eakin put that notion to rest, telling the National Review:
“[N]either the Administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the ACLU and the trial lawyers, understand were Constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001.”
Pressed to explain the glaring inconsistencies, John McCain on June 6 played dumb, deciding that cowardice is the better part of valor. As the New York Times reported, McCain now believes the legality of Bush’s regime of NSA domestic surveillance is unclear and, in any event, is old news:
“It’s ambiguous as to whether the president acted within his authority or not,” he said, saying courts had ruled different ways on the matter. “I’m not interested in going back. I’m interested in addressing the challenge we face to day of trying to do everything we can to counter organizations and individuals that want to destroy this country. So there’s ambiguity about it. Let’s move forward.”
As for immunity for the telecommunications firms cooperating with the White House in what before August 2007 was doubtless illegal surveillance, there too McCain’s position has evolved. On May 23, campaign surrogate Chuck Fish announced that McCain would not back retroactive immunity “unless there were revealing Congressional hearings and heartfelt repentance from those telephone and internet companies.” Subsequently, the McCain campaign swiftly backtracked, claiming its man supports immunity unconditionally.
7. Restoring the Everglades. On June 5, John McCain traveled to the Everglades to win over Floridians and environmentally-minded voters. There he proclaimed, “I am in favor of doing whatever’s necessary to save the Everglades.” Sadly, as ThinkProgress documented, McCain not only opposed $2 billion in funding for the restoration of the Everglades national park, he backed President Bush’s veto of the legislation in 2007. “I believe,” he said, “that we should be passing a bill that will authorize legitimate, needed projects without sacrificing fiscal responsibility.”
8. Divestment from South Africa. During his June 2 speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), John McCain called for the international community to target Iran for the kind of worldwide sanctions regime applied to apartheid-era South Africa. Unfortunately, McCain’s lobbyist-advisers Charlie Black and Rick Davis each represented firms doing business with Tehran. Even more unfortunate, John McCain was frequently not among those offering “moral clarity and conviction” in backing “a divestment campaign against South Africa, helping to rid that nation of the evil of apartheid.” As ThinkProgress detailed:
Despite voting to override President Reagan’s veto of a bill imposing economic sanctions against South Africa in 1986, McCain voted against sanctions on at least six other occasions.
9. Fighting Job Losses in Michigan. During the run-up to the Michigan primary, John McCain cautioned workers there in January that he didn’t want to raise “false hopes that somehow we can bring back lost jobs,” adding that it” wasn’t government’s job to protect buggy factories and haberdashers when cars replaced carriages and men stopped wearing hats.” But after getting trounced in Michigan by Mitt Romney and watching the economy deteriorate further, McCain has had a change of heart. As Bloomberg noted on June 5:
Nowadays, the party’s presumptive nominee is singing a different tune, striking a populist pose and saying “new jobs are coming”… …Over the past few months, however, McCain has taken a lesson from Romney, acknowledging recently that “Americans are hurting.” Returning to Michigan last month, the Arizona senator told a local television station that he would fight for new jobs and the state wouldn’t “be left behind.”
Perhaps the good people of Michigan, as John McCain suggested to a Kentucky audience in April, can make a living on eBay.
10. Opposing Hurricane Katrina Investigations. During a June 4th town hall meeting in Baton Rouge, John McCain answered a reporter’s question regarding Hurricane Katrina and the failure of the New Orleans levees by announcing:
“I’ve supported every investigation and ways of finding out what caused the tragedy. I’ve been here to New Orleans. I’ve met with people on the ground.”
As it turns out, not so much. McCain’s revisionist history neglects to mention that in 2005 and 2006 he twice voted against a commission to study the government’s response to Katrina. He also opposed three separate emergency funding measures providing relief to Katrina victims, including the extension of five months of Medicaid benefits. And as ThinkProgress pointed out, “until traveling there one month ago, McCain had made just one public tour of New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina touched down in August 2005.”
And so it goes. As surely as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west each day, so too will John McCain change positions. (Like that other law of nature, McCain’s flip-flops are literally becoming a daily occurrence. Since this piece was originally drafted on Saturday, McCain added two new policy turnabouts - on phasing out rather than repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax and on requiring a litmus test for his judicial appointees - to his litany of reversals.) As the Pew Research Center recently found, the word Americans now most frequently use to describe John McCain is not “maverick,” but “old.” Given the dizzying pace of his reversals, “opportunist” may soon top that list.
July 25, 2008
2:29 PM
StandUp writes:
Yes, it will have a backlash. Starting with me. I am not partial to McCain and many of the things he stands for but I am voting for a President of the United States and not President of Europe or the World. I now think that Obama is a meglamaniac and we don't need that.
July 25, 2008
2:48 PM
Anti 2:27 writes:
Hey wind-bag at 2:27...
nice long boring anti-McCain rant.
I think I fell asleep around the 10,000th word and then my mouse broke trying to scroll past your post.
July 25, 2008
3:24 PM
Anti 2:27 writes:
Why didn't Obama wear body armor on his trip to Baghdad?
Oh my goodness... it couldn't possibly be safer there... could it? The surge couldn't possibly be working... could it?
As for flip-flopping (I'm talking to YOU, 2:27 windbag):
Sen. Obama has shifted recently on public financing, free trade, Nafta, welfare reform, the D.C. gun ban, whether the Iranian Quds Force is a terrorist group, immunity for telecom companies participating in the Terrorist Surveillance Program, the status of Jerusalem, flag lapel pins, and disavowing Rev. Jeremiah Wright. But the biggest flop of all comes on Iraq.
Throughout 2006 and early 2007, Mr. Obama pledged to remove all U.S. troops, even voting to immediately cut off funds for the troops while they were in combat. Then, in July 2007, he started talking about leaving a residual U.S. force, in Kuwait and elsewhere in the region, able to go back into Iraq if needed.
NOW, Colin Kahl, an Obama adviser on Iraq, has said the senator wants to have "perhaps 60,000-80,000 forces" in Iraq by December 2010.
So much for withdrawing all combat troops!
July 25, 2008
3:29 PM
Anonymous writes:
Nobama is a joke, he is not going to win this election, people do not want the extreme left in charge and come November people who claim to be lefties cause its the trendy thing to do will secretly vote repbulican just like they did in 2004, just like the polls showing gays getting rights in colorado, then the lefties voted cause they are secretly homophobes, they will not vote for the fraud Obama.
July 25, 2008
3:45 PM
Shaggy aka Obamas typical bitter white person writes:
Things we cannot talk about the Plastic Messiah.
Can't talk about how Liberal he is,
Can't talk about his ears,
Can't talk about how he looks like George the monkey,
Can't talk about his middle name,
Can't talk about his ties to terrorists,
Can't talk about his racial spiritual adviser,
Can't talk about his reluctance to wear a flag pin,
Can't talk about his patriotism,
Can't talk about him throwing Grandma under the bus,
Can't talk about him appeasing terrorists,
Can't talk about him being a mix breed,
Can't talk about his Liberal voting record,
Can't talk about his elitism,
Can't talk about his lack of experience,
Can't talk about how he has NO foreign policy experience.
Can't talk about how he doesn't want to drill our own Oil.
Can't talk about how he likes the high Gas prices.
Oh and,
We can't talk about his unproud precious wife.
July 25, 2008
3:51 PM
MongoLikeCandy writes:
Did David Hasselhoff play a concert before Obama's speech??? I hear they love him there too!
Those Germans sure have good taste in pop icons...
July 25, 2008
4:00 PM
prima facie writes:
This is the latest misstep in which Democrats, fait accompli to win the White House less than a year ago, are blowing the whole deal.
Their candidate is a junior senator who has not written or sponsored a single piece of significant legislation, who has spent 20 years in the pews of a racial separatist church, and who decries the cost of war in Iraq while promising to spend that money and more on other things. This after a protracted primary against another junior senator who claims to have been deceived into war by the White House after saying she had done her own "due diligence" and consulted foreign policy advisers from her husband's administration, and has yet to come completely clean on her role as an unelected, unconfirmed and unaccountable member of that administration.
And now this candidate pretends to be president on an overseas trip, ostensibly to prop up his foreign policy cred, and pimps a troop withdrawal with the priviso of a fluid timetable. Sound like the position of any sitting president you know? Then he visits holy sites in Israel, complete with campaign placards placed by campaign staffers. And finally a speech intended to be given at the Brandenburg Gate and calling for the tearing down of walls -- physical ones that came down a generation ago and figurative ones that don't exist.
One wonders just what Barack Obama is doing campaigning for U.S. office in a foreign country. Obviously, his every move is beamed back home. And he did go out of his way to mention he spoke in Germany "not as a candidate" but as a "citizen of the world." So he was there on vacation and just happened to find a microphone and a crowd that had just watched a concert?
All the while, he's in a statistical dead heat with John McCain, who won the nomination of a party whose strongest candidates stayed out of a supposed foregone conclusion.
July 25, 2008
4:30 PM
Charles_B writes:
The only downside to the trip is that it provided McCain cover to unleash his pathetic jingoistic attacks (the ones he said he wouldn't make):
"I had the courage and the judgment to say I would rather lose a political campaign than lose a war. It seems to me that Obama would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign."
...and to do so without fear of reprisal, since Obama has too much class to make political attacks from a foreign country.
Of course, McCain also used the time to commit several major "gaffs" regarding the conflict about which he is a supposed expert.
All the guy has left is the fear card, since his wits appear to have left him.
July 25, 2008
4:30 PM
Sock Ray Blue writes:
American voters (the ones that actually vote) will choose the middle ground and the least harmful candidate. Bush Sr. and Jr. seemed to be the least harmful and won. Al Gore was and is still spooky. Obama is even more scary than all the aforementioned men. His Messiah/Presidential escapade will go well in the comedic history of the future.
I believe that I've written previously about the games Illinois politicians play. And one has to question the gullibility (intelligence) of those Illinois/Chicago voters.
I left in 1971 and they haven't gotten any smarter. The Son-of-Daley is still mayor. Yikes!
July 25, 2008
5:04 PM
history buff writes:
The biggest backlash to Obama's trip seems to be coming from the Bush and McCain people. Obama clearly has the right to travel. So what is the fuss? Is it that he shows up Bush and McCain? Nobody complained when McCain went on his foreign junket to Colombia and Mexico. So WTF? The real issue is that Obama is running a better campaign and he appears to be winning.
Look at the quality of the anti-Obama comments. Doesn't the GOP care that its voting base appears to be mentally disturbed?
July 25, 2008
5:18 PM
His Travesty writes:
I have to admit that Obama is getting far to preachy and lame. This nonsense about tearing down walls between people of different religions. How the hell does he think he's going to accomplish this? Who does he think he's talking to here? I would personally like to see him put up a wall between the Jews/Christians and the Muslims by cutting off our dependency for foreign oil. That is what RR would have done by now. Further, this man keeps using this retarded slogan "change." This has such a negative connotation to it. As if every American needs to change this and that about their daily lives. No we don't, if your ass gets into office you better change how cars are built otherwise your talk is cheap and I wont vote for you. Forget socialized medicine and looking cool in front of our lame Euro buddies, I want to cut off our oil dependency. I want education to be funded better. I want us to hold immigrants accountable and make sure they're willing do embrace our culture which VALUES education so that we can COMPETE IN THE GLOBAL ECONOMY! I'll tell you what, the first one of these cowards who actually addresses the immigration issues in this country gets my vote.
The strangest thing is that everyone is so uncertain about these two candidates. Even Howard Stern is disgruntled with the Democratic party and might vote Republican. People can't even be partisan because we have such a distrust in our government.
July 25, 2008
7:14 PM
FreeToChoose writes:
History Buff:
You call the GOP base disturbed?
C'mon now.
A little respect!
Just because most Republicans don't want government to be the agent of change, and would rather place that trust in the capable hands of the people in this country, does that make us deranged?
The biggest changes in our nation over the last 40 years haven't been provided for by the government. Sure, the internet was spawned by the US military (not Al Gore), but its growth is a private sector, capitalism-at-its-best phenomenon. The biggest innovators and progressive thinkers haven't been Senators or Presidents, they've been shopkeepers like Sam Walton and Jeff Bezos who have transformed how we buy items every day. They've been college drop outs like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs and engineers like Steve Wosniak and physicists like Gordon Moore who have launched the information age to its current zenith. They have been investment pioneers like Jack Bogle and Peter Lynch who launched the mutual fund industry and brought hundreds of millions of investors opportunities never before open to them.
And those men represent only the tip of the ice berg... but not a single US Senator can claim to have changed people's live to the extent that those I mentioned above have. NOT ONE.
And there's been only one tranformational president in that time period (even Obama acknowledged as much)... and that was Ronald Reagan... a Republican!
Are Republicans for change?
You bet!!!
But Republicans don't sit around and wait for others (in this case, the government) to make change happen for them... they believe in the kind of change you can not only believe in but that you can count on... the change brought about by individuals and companies every day in this country. How is that crazy?
You know what's crazy? Sitting around waiting for the federal government to change your life for the better! Go out and beg for change at 6th and Speer... you'll probably be better off in the long run!
July 25, 2008
7:57 PM
Anonymous writes:
Thats why Im for John McCain
hes for change
Hes different than Bush.
(his diapers need changing all the time)
July 25, 2008
9:17 PM
Facts are still facts. writes:
A show pony. That what liberal dems are pinning their gossamer hopes on. They are going to be VERY disappointed when the messiah does not appear.
Obama has been a construct all of his life. On the topic of race, for which he fancies himself an expert, he can't even come to terms with the fact that he is half white and was raised in a white family for most of his life, certainly through his formative years.
When affirmative action came knocking, he suddenly was a black man. When political aspirations crested, he knew the black man game was going to be an advantage against his better prepared opponents.
And now he wants America to think he has experience because he tours around the world acting like a head of state. That he is a good actor is not in dispute.
Qualified to be President?
Absolutely not.
July 25, 2008
10:03 PM
Jay writes:
The right-wing whiners about Obama's trip abroad are amazing. McCain has absolutely nothing to talk about of substance, so he spends the week whining about the international leadership Obama is showing abroad. The supine mainstream media licks their right wing owners' boots once again, of course, headlining McCain's not-choosing a Veep every day this week.
America's not so stupid, GOP.
July 26, 2008
7:21 AM
paul writes:
John McCain is for torture
John McCain is for destroying the constitution
John McCain is for more war
Just like Bush
John McCain as president?
you've got to be kidding
July 26, 2008
11:27 AM
Stuey writes:
The hypnosis is working.
The sheeple are buying wholesale the "leadership" being displayed by a rock star on his previctory tour. Funny how foreign government's take on all this is guarded and tepid. They recognize the roominess in that empty suit.
The sheeple would rather remember the image of thousands of German youngsters in the mall rewarded free eats and drinks to see the rock star. To the sheeple, this is "international leadership".
Amazing, but typical for the party that can't pick a winner even when they were offered a gimmie with Dubya.
Can you spell G-O-P?
July 26, 2008
12:03 PM
FreeToChoose writes:
Why is it that the liberal establishment complains expensively about the corruption and tax breaks and undue influence peddled by oil companies and Wall Street and big Parma, but they insist on bringing more industries under the sway of the Federal Government by expanding the role of government in finance and healthcare and energy?
Work done by Stigler and other public choice economists show that in such cases, firms are encouraged to become 'rent seekers' and to use their resources to influence government decisions, creating inefficiencies and resulting in the mis-allocation of resources.
Why do you think Walmart is "For" a national healthcare system? Because then Walmart doesn't have to bear the full cost of insuring their workers AND they can influence how the process works because they have the resources to do so. They'll become rent seekers, as will big Parma and the insurance companies.
Before engaging in any new healthcare initiatives, the Government should prove it can efficiently operate the healthcare system it currently runs: Medicare & Medicaid. The incentives within that system have been so distorted by politics and rent seekers that it should be a HUGE warning sign to any government expansion into healthcare. Yet, like the executives at Enron, politicians will keep expanding their franchise in Healthcrae until the house of cards topples down... leaving the stakeholders... citizens... holding the bag.
If Obama and McCain are serious about addressing Healthcare issues in this country, they need to focus on fixing Medicare and Medicaid FIRST. And if they can't... they have no business expanding the government's role in healthcare!
July 26, 2008
12:57 PM
Gina writes:
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS watched Obama snub wounded American soldiers, and then witnessed him stating that it was the Pentagons fault ... and then saying it was the more appropriate thing to do ... when the truth is, he could have visited our wounded soldiers, if he simply would have left his media entourage outside the hospital. He is nothing but an attention whore, who spreads misinformation, to cover his tracks. I hope Americans can see what a unqualified phony Obama is.
July 26, 2008
12:58 PM
Gina writes:
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS watched Obama snub wounded American soldiers, and then witnessed him stating that it was the Pentagons fault ... and then saying it was the more appropriate thing to do ... when the truth is, he could have visited our wounded soldiers, if he simply would have left his media entourage outside the hospital. He is nothing but an attention whore, who spreads misinformation, to cover his tracks. I hope Americans can see what a unqualified phony Obama is.
July 26, 2008
2:46 PM
history buff writes:
VOTE FOR OBAMA! HE WILL PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY!
FTC, I don't quite follow your logic. You are grouping two clauses that lack parallelism in their construction. First, you say, liberals are spending money to complain about market manipulations and other abuses by oil companies, drug companies and Wall Street, and then you ask why they want regulation of finance and health care? You really are jumping all over the place to manipulate your argument so you can cite Stigler and then segue into you opposition of national health care. Why don't you just address national health care as an issue?
First of all, your argument apparently assumes some facts which you don't state, but expect people to know, which implies that the people you don't like are guilty of something that merely appears to you in your own imagination. And besides, the government isn't all that bad. Medicare is one of the most cost efficient organizations in the world.
Apparently, you support George Bush, John McCain the dogmatic wingnuts in their attempt to dismantle social security and Medicare. That may be fine for you, and the other people who replace common sense with ideology. But, I'm on the side of the giants who pulled us through the Great Depression and THE BIG ONE. The people on the right who seize on one thought and make it into a miracle scare the BE-JESUS out me. Because, personally, I don't think you are that smart, but you would say that is because of liberal bias.
Too much strange fruit for me.
July 26, 2008
4:35 PM
FreeToChoose writes:
History Buffy:
Did you just defend Medicare/Medicaid as "one of the most cost efficient organizations in the world?"
Holy cow.
Spending is spiraling out of control. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other medical assistance programs consume 41.5% of the federal budget. Buy 2012 that number will be 47.8%... and still growing. Moody's has threatened to lower the Federal Government's credit rating from AAA is spending on these programs is not curbed.
July 26, 2008
5:58 PM
Free not to gamble my hard earned money writes:
You can take your money to the track and bet it on papa's mustache in the third (drunk wall street). I choose the existing system.
July 26, 2008
6:03 PM
Free not to gamble my hard earned money writes:
You can take your money to the track and bet it on papa's mustache in the third (drunk wall street). I choose the existing system.
July 26, 2008
6:52 PM
Ben-Former Democrat writes:
When it is all said and done,and the layers have been peeled back on Obama, he may have a hard time being re-elected to the Senate from Illinois.
This dude is the ultimate poser.
July 27, 2008
8:01 AM
Froward69 writes:
Love the "rock star" complaints from the right.
McSame has a difficult time keeping a crowd in the same room even after taking away their walkers.
the gop hates the fact that an election boils down to a popularity contest. therefore that "rock star"
stuff is really a sign as to whom is more popular.
regardless of issues.
BTW Shaggy complains about not being allowed to discuss issues. sure discuss issues mcShame still looses.
Obama '08
July 27, 2008
8:02 AM
Froward69 writes:
Love the "rock star" complaints from the right.
McSame has a difficult time keeping a crowd in the same room even after taking away their walkers.
the gop hates the fact that an election boils down to a popularity contest. therefore that "rock star"
stuff is really a sign as to whom is more popular.
regardless of issues.
BTW Shaggy complains about not being allowed to discuss issues. sure discuss issues mcShame still looses. as he does not stick to any single position. the right complains about not trusting mcSame in 2000 and 2004 why not mow?
Obama '08
July 27, 2008
9:02 AM
Facts are still facts. writes:
Dems STILL can't seem to pick a winner.
What a miserable track record they have losing TWO elections to the likes of dubya.
That says it all.
July 27, 2008
10:58 AM
wizard writes:
Shoulda gone with the white dude Crats.
July 27, 2008
12:53 PM
Ezana writes:
Darn the democrats for not using the fallacious whispering campaign as a weapon. Honesty is for losers! Right Republicans.
July 27, 2008
3:15 PM
SueSueSudia writes:
What is all this about whispering? Critics of the Self-Appointed New First Couple have pointed out their shortcomings, and the Obama's don't like that.
Perceptions are always better than reality.
July 27, 2008
3:39 PM
never trust anyone under 30! writes:
Obama's European trip is a photo-op to make anyone who can't read (ie, *anyone under 30) believe the BIG LIE that he's competent to deal with international politics. Can't stand Bush, yet he is still president, and Obama is pre-empting the role of the US prez, which will bite him later on (*except for anyone who can't read/under 30.)
July 27, 2008
6:05 PM
jay writes:
ftc, why would you believe americans uncapable of adopting some of the best practices of our global peers who are doing healthcare better and cheaper than we are?
July 27, 2008
6:54 PM
Jus' had to writes:
My name be Eboneesha Li Herenandez, an African Hispanic Asiatic-American Girl who just got an award for being the bess speler in class. I got 67% on the speling test and 30 points being black, 5 points for not bringin drugs into class, 5 points for not bringin guns into class, and 5 points for not gettin pregnut during the cemester. It be hard to beat a score of 120%. White dude who sit nex to me is McGee from Ocala He got a 94% on the test but no extra points on acount of he have the same skin color as the opressirs of 150 years ago. Granny ax me to thank all Dimocrafts and Liberuls for suportin Afermative action. You be showin da way to true eqwallity. I be gittin in medical skool nex an
mabe I be yo doctor when Barrac take over da healtcare in dis cuntry.
July 27, 2008
9:03 PM
Dallas writes:
Sure, let's follow the European model:
Unstable economies
Immigrant underclasses setting fire to historic cities
Appeasement
Sky-high energy prices
Isolationism
It takes a very small bit politician to pander to this Union, and even smaller sheeple to defend it.
July 28, 2008
6:59 AM
Froward69 writes:
wouldn't it be nice to have the HONEST respect of other nations once again?
respect at the point of a gun is fear.
retardlicans cannot get that for some reason.
July 28, 2008
7:42 AM
SASQUATCH writes:
BO gives a speech about "barriers" and "walls" citing his belief that Americans must learn the languages of the Europeans...that we need to speak Spanish when we communicate with Spaniards. He asks why should they have to speak English, our language, when speaking to us? So BO, Americans are such bullies, its our way or the highway?
But BO gives this anti-American speech in Berlin, Germany....and in English! ENGLISH! What a liberal hypocrite!
July 28, 2008
8:14 AM
Sock Ray Blue writes:
English is the standard language used in aviation around the world. English is the standard language used in the International business world.
A "foreign" language is used if you want to keep a secret from someone not speaking that language.
July 28, 2008
8:45 AM
JW writes:
(CNN) — Buoyed by a new Gallup daily tracking poll showing Barack Obama ahead by a 9-point margin, the latest CNN poll of polls suggests the Illinois senator has doubled his lead over John McCain.
July 28, 2008
9:06 AM
JMH writes:
"(CNN) — Buoyed by a new Gallup daily tracking poll showing Barack Obama ahead by a 9-point margin, the latest CNN poll of polls suggests the Illinois senator has doubled his lead over John McCain." - JW
Hahaha... So after just reading NeoCon stooge after NeoCon stooge PREDICT this would backfire on Obama, it looks like Obama actually got a bump, and a big one at that!
Keep the predictions coming NeoCons... Looks like if you just take the OPPOSITE of every NeocON PREDICTION teh last 7 years, THEY ARE BATTING 1.000!!! Too Funny... I guess they are wrong on every prediction because you should base your prediction on facts, that helps. But NeoCons don't like facts and they don't seem to want to live in reality, thus their predictions are always wrong. Love it... please keep telling us how McSame will be president and how Obama will ruin the country. Please NeoCon Nostrodamus wanna-be's... please...
July 28, 2008
9:28 AM
Shaggy aka Trying to think like a Liberal writes:
I think we should all go out and bet the farm on this poll when we are still 100 days out.
July 28, 2008
9:40 AM
JW writes:
" I think we should all go out and bet the farm on this poll when we are still 100 days out."
Good god Shaggy, could your opinion be any more irrelevant? No. It really couldnt. Why?
Because, youre double standard is SOOOOO amazing.
When it looks like Obama is taking a hit in the polls...the polls are a big deal. The second it looks like he got a bump...polls dont matter.
When 75% of the nation wants out of Iraq, it doesnt matter. When 75% of the nation buys into the shock doctrine and wants drilling...all of a sudden its a guaranteed win for the GOP.
Youre an idiot.
July 28, 2008
9:48 AM
JW writes:
"Are Republicans for change?
You bet!!!
But Republicans don't sit around and wait for others (in this case, the government) to make change happen for them... they believe in the kind of change you can not only believe in but that you can count on... the change brought about by individuals and companies every day in this country. How is that crazy?"
The problem here is that it was Clinton who best pushed thsi kind of thing lately, and hes a Democrat. And the proof is in your own post...
"Sure, the internet was spawned by the US military (not Al Gore), but its growth is a private sector, capitalism-at-its-best phenomenon. The biggest innovators and progressive thinkers haven't been Senators or Presidents, they've been shopkeepers like Sam Walton and Jeff Bezos who have transformed how we buy items every day. They've been college drop outs like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs and engineers like Steve Wosniak and physicists like Gordon Moore who have launched the information age to its current zenith. They have been investment pioneers like Jack Bogle and Peter Lynch who launched the mutual fund industry and brought hundreds of millions of investors opportunities never before open to them.
And those men represent only the tip of the ice berg..."
Yea, and WHEN did these guys do this stuff...mostly under Clinton. They may have gotten started under Reagan, but they GOT HUGE under Clinton...
And of course you showed your partisan hackery with that Gore remark. The man never said he invented the internet, but you are a partisan hack, liked the idea, and didnt bother to check your facts.
Again, FTC, you may be the most knowledgable well read partisan hack Ive ever seen, but youre still a partisan hack, and it means youre only right HALF the time, no matter how much you read.
Party does NOT trump individual. POLICY trumps EVERYTHING ELSE. I dont give a CRAP if the next person to lead the nation is Republican or Democrat, as long as they KNOW WTF THEY ARE DOING. That involves recognizing that the USA's MAJOR challenge going forward is three pronged:
1. Energy
2. Education
3. Foreign Relations
And the deal here is that on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE...McCain is inferior.
July 28, 2008
9:57 AM
Shaggy aka Obamas typical bitter white person writes:
"When 75% of the nation wants out of Iraq"
Not sure where you pulled this out of however you conveniently left out the part that states the vast majority of Americans want us out of Iraq VICTORIOUS.
Of course most Americans want our troops to come home, but the left loons want them to come home losers out of hatred of Bush.
Pathetic!!!!
Youre an idiot..
Anyhoo,
80% of Americans want to drill off shore.
Obama is against it.
McCain is for it.
McCain will be our next President.
People are going to vote for who ever lowers the price at the pump.
Just having Bush lift the ban lowered them over night regardless to what the left will like you to believe.
Then stupid Pelosi tried to blame Bush for not opening our 700 million barrels of Oil reserves to help the people.....but I thought more Oil wouldn't help?...jebus...Liberals are stupid.
July 28, 2008
10:16 AM
JW writes:
Ok, let me get this straight Shaggy...
Bush saying we could drill (which would add more oil to the market in 3-5 years) is what people are for, and will get McCain elected because it will drop prices. Now, implicit in this is that drilling will drop prices by adding more oil to the market...
YET...
Pelosi is stupid for wanting to add more oil to the market NOW?
WTF?
"Not sure where you pulled this out "
Thats cause youre a fucking retard. Youve only been seeing the polls for what, two years? Jackass.
July 28, 2008
10:35 AM
jay writes:
"Not sure where you pulled this out of however you conveniently left out the part that states the vast majority of Americans want us out of Iraq VICTORIOUS."
as usual, shaggy, you're completely wrong
3 out of 4 americans want us out of iraq regardless of the situation on the ground.
any questions about that?
i guess the real question...as long as we're asking...is why you continue to supporting keeping our soldiers in harm's way without the resources necessary to "win" and come home?
my guess is you're just a loyal footsoldier and that party is more important than the safety of our country and the well being of our troops.
July 28, 2008
10:48 AM
Shaggy writes:
No JW, It is the Femdems saying even if we had more Oil in our market it would only lower gas prices by 5 cents so it isn't worth it...which most of us know is BS.
I know it is hard to keep up on the lefts talking points because they change daily but come on man..Jackass
Their latest talking point is they don't want to drill because it would take so long and besides, it would only lower prices by 5 cents..
If Clinton wouldn't have vetoed drilli9ng off shore and in ANWR, all this Oil would be online right now.
That might be a good thing though because it could cost Obama the election that gas prices are high and he, like most Liberals, are against drilling of shore.
July 28, 2008
10:52 AM
Shaggy writes:
No jay,
Only Obama and the fruits on the far left...most Americans know how important it is to have a secured Iraq and an ally in the middle east.
Like McCain said and it is so true.
Obama would rather lose a War for political gain.
What a fricking idiot Obama is...that is another FACT.
July 28, 2008
11:01 AM
JW writes:
"No JW, It is the Femdems saying even if we had more Oil in our market it would only lower gas prices by 5 cents so it isn't worth it...which most of us know is BS."
So what? They are idiots. Fine.
I was talking about YOUR stupidity. "Drilling will lower prices (in 3-5 years) so its smart (because a Republican said it). But letting oil out of the reserves now is dumb because a democrat said it." Idiot.
"I know it is hard to keep up on the lefts talking points because they change daily but come on man..Jackass"
Ohhh. Thats so nasty Shaggy. Of course, yet another double standard. Both the Left AND the Right have been changing their talking points these days. Retard.
"Their latest talking point is they don't want to drill because it would take so long and besides, it would only lower prices by 5 cents.."
And its wrong WHY?
"If Clinton wouldn't have vetoed drilli9ng off shore and in ANWR, all this Oil would be online right now."
If Reagan and Bush 1 hadnt done the same, it would have been online during the Clinton admin. Whats your point? Oh yea..."I hate Democrats, no matter how stupid it makes me look" And Shaggy, it makes you look REALLY REALLY STOOOPPIIDD.
"That might be a good thing though because it could cost Obama the election that gas prices are high and he, like most Liberals, are against drilling of shore. "
Yea, there are enough idiots like you out there, this is possible.
July 28, 2008
11:04 AM
JW writes:
"No JW, It is the Femdems saying even if we had more Oil in our market it would only lower gas prices by 5 cents so it isn't worth it...which most of us know is BS."
And wait a minuet! I thought you just said Pelosi wanted to open up the US reserve and put more oil on the market now. Which is it Shaggster? Femdems DONT want to do this, or Pelosi (who even an idiot like you knows is a Dem) DOES want to do this? Which one Shaggy?
And how do you know its BS? Must be that super developed understanding of economics and business you DONT HAVE.
July 28, 2008
11:06 AM
JW writes:
"What a fricking idiot Obama is...that is another FACT."
Thats an opinion. The fact that you believe it is a "Fact" is yet another classic example of your stupidity.
July 28, 2008
11:15 AM
JMH writes:
Iraq is an occupation shaggy, not a war. You don't win occupations, you just end them. Probably above your head, but I thought I would try.
And what is this whole win/lose nonsense with you guys? This isn't a FUCKING GAME!!! It is to you, judging by your posts, but it is not.
And what are we gonna "win"? Cheaper oil? Ummm this occupation is one of the main reasons it is so high to begin with. A friend in the Middle East? They want us out and said so last week and they are closer to Iran then ever. Ya... great move! So what do we "win"?
This occupation has seriously hurt our country in a myriad of ways and you want it to continue? Leave it to the narrow minded to say we have to stay involved in an occupation that is hurting and dividing our country so his "party" can get another "W" in it's war record.
That's what this is all about huh? Just want to make sure they get something they can call a "win" so they don't have to face the truth about the damage this occupation based on lies has done to this country domestically and in our standing in the world! It's all about "saving face" for Bush and his NeoCon stooges...
Well if everything is going soooo well in Iraq shaggy, why can't we leave? Can't we just declare victory and go home. In hindsight, it actually worked pretty good in Vietnam, them now being a trading partner and all...
July 28, 2008
11:24 AM
JMH writes:
Oh wait... here is what we "won" for Iraq... a $490 BILLION dollar deficit! Great... So G. W. Bush gets the gold medal for "fisical irresponsiblity"!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/28/2009.deficit/index.html
If you call record deficits, a dollar that isn't worth a nickel, thousands dead, billions wasted, an economy in shambles, a standing in the world on par with China and Iran a "victory", then you truly are the "Biggest DIPSHIT on the planet"! See shaggy, you do win something...
July 28, 2008
11:45 AM
Shaggy writes:
Exactly my point JW.
She is trying to blame Bush of doing nothing to lower the prices when they know they are the cause of it in the first place...
In one sentence she says it won't help if we drill for our own yet in the next she says it will help if Bush opens up our reserves, which would be a grave grave mistake if something were to happen in Iran or else where...
She is a nut..she is an embarrassment to your party and Congress...remember 9%.
Drill here, drill now.
Build a refinery, build it here, build it now.
Did you know the experts are predicting Colorado has three folds the Oil in all of Saudi Arabia in shale?
Could supply the U.S for 200 years...giving us plenty of time to find an alternative, cleaner fuel.
Two problems with extracting the Oil here in Colorado.
Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter...FACT!!!
Same problem we have in Congress....too many Democrats in charge...FACT!!!
Now they think BIG Government should be in charge of Health Care..that is a scary thing.
Bam Bam,
You don't have a clue..The reason they want us out is because it is better over there and we are able to pull troops out soon.
In other words, the surge was a great success and Bush and Gen.P should be highly credited.
Remember not too long ago how they were begging us to stay when the Democrats were suggesting for us to pullout?? I see you forget those inconvenient facts!!!
If Obama had his way we would have been out of there already with out the Country being stabilized, with Al Queda in charge...got it now?...Sadly I doubt it.
July 28, 2008
11:45 AM
jay writes:
wow shaggy, so you think obama wants us to fail in iraq....rather than we're going to fail because of the decisions of conservative/republican politicians.
do i have that latest conspiracy theory correct?
could you be any more irrelevant here?
July 28, 2008
11:53 AM
JW writes:
"She is trying to blame Bush of doing nothing to lower the prices when they know they are the cause of it in the first place..."
How? It was Reagan and Bush 1 that stopped us from drilling.
"In one sentence she says it won't help if we drill for our own "
Because we wont see ONE DROP of that oil for minimum 3years.
"yet in the next she says it will help if Bush opens up our reserves"
PUTTING OIL IN THE MARKET NOW. See the difference? Even a rank idiot like you should be able to get this.
"which would be a grave grave mistake if something were to happen in Iran or else where..."
LOL. How so Shaggy?
July 28, 2008
11:56 AM
JW writes:
"In other words, the surge was a great success and Bush and Gen.P should be highly credited."
Gen P should get ALL the credit.
The only "credit" Bush should get is that he finally let the military do their jobs. Since it was his STUPIDITY that created the problem in the first place, Im thinking hes still WAY in the red as far as "Credit" is concerned.
July 28, 2008
12:32 PM
Shaggy writes:
jay, Obama already think we failed in Iraq.
He has stated the surge was a failure on his website but suddenly that was removed..hmmmm
"which would be a grave grave mistake if something were to happen in Iran or else where..."
LOL. How so Shaggy?
JW, Do you know what the reason is behind to have emergency reserves???
In case of an Emergency..Take notice why we call them..EMERGENCY RESERVES.
Who knows what the prices would jump too if Israel were to attack Irans Nuclear Facilities.
Are you saying Oil prices would not spike drastically?
Or are you saying Israel will not attack Irans N.F's?
"Because we wont see ONE DROP of that oil for minimum 3years."
Just having Bush lift the ban lowered prices.
Knowing that America is doing something to become energy independent would also lower prices.
Besides it would take a hell of a lot longer to bring anything else on board.
Just sitting back and doing nothing like the Democrats want to do is asinine.
Whether you like it or not, we are still going to be Oil dependent in 10 years regardless of algores ridiculous plan.
July 28, 2008
12:55 PM
JW writes:
"JW, Do you know what the reason is behind to have emergency reserves???
In case of an Emergency..Take notice why we call them..EMERGENCY RESERVES.
Who knows what the prices would jump too if Israel were to attack Irans Nuclear Facilities."
Shaggy, have we ever tapped those reserves in a time of non-emergency? If so, did the nation fall apart?
And...how much of our oil comes from the instable middle east? You dont know.
"Just having Bush lift the ban lowered prices."
Yes Shaggy, youve already shown us all how stupid you are. No need to continue. I mean seriously...do you REALLY believe thats the only thing that affects the Oil market?
"Just sitting back and doing nothing like the Democrats want to do is asinine."
Strawman. Hell, YOU said Pelosi wants to release some from the reserves. And the "Manhattan Project" style push for green tech Obama is talking about is hardly "Nothing". With the way you idiots think, we never would have developed nukes, gone to the moon, or developed the internet.
"Whether you like it or not, we are still going to be Oil dependent in 10 years regardless of algores ridiculous plan."
Belief vs reality. Thats all you got, and its pathetic.
July 28, 2008
1:01 PM
JMH writes:
"Remember not too long ago how they were begging us to stay when the Democrats were suggesting for us to pullout??" - shaggy
Ummm... you mean when they were killing American troops at a pace of about 5 a day? When Shiite militias fought with us everyday, when Sunnis were setting roadside bombs everywhere before we bribed then to start fighting with us? Don't ever remember the Iraqis "begging" us to stay... More BS you were fed on FOX in sure.
So if things are so great, why aren't we pulling out?
And you still didn't answer the question - What are we gonna win?
July 28, 2008
1:01 PM
jay writes:
shaggy, the surge DID fail to achieve its stated goal.
give us some sign that you understand that fact.
furthermore, if you're worried about increasing supply...our SOR's have been leveraged several times over the years in order to influence the market.
why do you think we shouldn't do that again?
if you're worried about dumping more supply into the market...why not support drilling on the millions of acres already approved for drilling?
July 28, 2008
1:51 PM
Shaggy writes:
The surge was a success. I also noticed the plastic messiah wasn't wearing any armor.
Why is it that the Democrats don't want to drill and are so against Oil Companies?
Why does Obama plan on putting another tax on Oil Companies errr anther tax for us?
Why does Ritter plan putting another tax on Oil Companies errr anther tax for us?
Ritter will be a one termer as will Salazar.
80% of American want to open up drilling.
Obama says no.
McCain says yes.
McCain will win in Nov.
July 28, 2008
2:05 PM
jay writes:
"The surge was a success"
really, shaggy?
one question.
did it achieve its stated goal?
"Why is it that the Democrats don't want to drill and are so against Oil Companies?"
yet another shaggian myth.
"80% of American want to open up drilling.
Obama says no"
and another one.
seriously...is it ignorance or willful ignorance?
July 28, 2008
3:18 PM
Shaggy writes:
did it achieve its stated goal?
Actually jay...yes it did...it was intended to curd the violence and it did...it actually worked very well.
I guess you don't understand that 80% of Americans want to open off shore drilling.
Not a big surprise..either does Obama.
Hey did you hear where the Democratic controlled Congress's ratings are at a miserable all time record low 9%?
Is it ironic that when they gained control was right when the surge in Oil prices started?...hmmmm
I heard our next President, John McCain, is going to be visiting Colorado again.
July 28, 2008
3:32 PM
Anonymous writes:
"Actually jay...yes it did...it was intended to curd the violence and it did...it actually worked very well."
boom.
i knew if we kept going after your myths, shaggy, that you'd end up cornering yourself.
i think we have found the problem.
the stated goal of the surge, according to the whitehouse...was to provide enough security to foster political reconcilliation.
so...shaggy...the surge has failed to achieve that goal.
it has failed.
do you have any questions about that before we move on?
you said obama didn't want to drill...is that not the case as you stated? were you lying?
considering that 80% of our ocs has already been approved for drilling...along with millions of other acres of land...what is the hold up?
shaggy, as far as the congressional polling is concerned...apparently you STILL haven't taken that civics class that all of us have been begging you to do for months now.
explain me this and i think we can do the same for your misconceptions on this issue as we did above about your ignorance regarding the surge.
if the dems are the cause of the low approval ratings...why are they expected to gain seats this fall?
"Is it ironic that when they gained control was right when the surge in Oil prices started?"
and what dem policy decisions do you think caused this, shaggy?
July 28, 2008
3:40 PM
jay writes:
i think you know that was me with the debunking, shaggito...
July 28, 2008
3:43 PM
Shaggy writes:
"73 percent of Americans in favor of expanded offshore drilling for oil and natural gas in protected U.S. waters. The survey of 1,000 Americans from June 26 to 29 is the latest to show rising support among beleaguered consumers for increasing access to America's oil reserves."
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/03/news/economy/environment_economy/index.htm?postversion=2008070313
"Recent polls show a large majority of Americans, burdened by $4 gasoline and tired of foreign energy dependence, want to encourage domestic exploration and drilling for oil and natural gas."
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/07/17/gased.html
"According to a recent CNN Opinion Poll, 74% of Americans are in favor of offshore drilling."
Now these numbers are closer to 80%.
July 28, 2008
3:55 PM
Shaggy writes:
jay you have never cornered nor debunked anyone...ever.
You don't understand that the surge was a success.
Neither does Obama...hold it..wait a second... didn't he say the surge was a success but will be short lived?(especially if he cuts and run even after millions of Iraqis were able to vote for the first time and stated they would love to live in a free Democracy)...hard to keep up with his daily flopping.
""Is it ironic that when they gained control was right when the surge in Oil prices started?"
and what dem policy decisions do you think caused this, shaggy?"
This was a question jay...do you not read well?
July 28, 2008
4:01 PM
history buff writes:
You all should listen to what Obama is saying. He has indicated that going into Afghanistan is a viable option. Obama is for killing terrorists. He thinks, like many other people do, that the war in Iraq is more about liberating oil. The war in Iraq won't be over for the GOP until big oil has signed up the Iraqi government.
July 28, 2008
4:23 PM
Observer writes:
"jay you have never cornered nor debunked anyone...ever." shaggy
That's a truism if there ever was one.
July 28, 2008
4:26 PM
Observer writes:
"jay you have never cornered nor debunked anyone...ever." shaggy
That's a truism if there ever was one.
July 28, 2008
4:42 PM
jay writes:
"You don't understand that the surge was a success."
okay...we're back to the same question, shaggy.
has the surge accomplished its stated goal as defined by the wh?
i take we're done on the oil stuff as you keep posting polls unrelated to the fact that the dems and obama support increasing domestic drilling.
observer...instead of trolling...why don't you answer the surge question for us?
July 28, 2008
5:20 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) Will the real Obama just concede and go back to Hawaii writes:
Obama's trip proves that he is more interested in the adoring accolades of those who descended from the people that Hitler duped, than he is about solving American problems. And by the way, the war in Iraq is not a major porblem. WWII consumed 37% of GDP, Iraq consumes less than 1% of GDP. Is it important? Yes, but it is not the fiasco that the Bush haters want to make it out to be.
July 28, 2008
5:33 PM
jay writes:
"it is not the fiasco that the Bush haters want to make it out to be"
really hogar?
why in the world would you think that needlessly spending trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on a war that wasn't necessary isn't a fiasco?
July 28, 2008
5:58 PM
Shaggy writes:
jay, do you understand that we now, along with the Iraqi troops and Government, control almost ALL of Iraq?
A major accomplishment since the surge.
But in your Liberal world that is still failure.
I also see where Obama decided against going to see our wounded soldiers because he couldn't take in the cameras.
This guy is such a egotistic it makes me sick..I hope like hell it makes most Americans sick as well.
He also voted against funding the troops..
What a sicko..
July 28, 2008
7:16 PM
Shaggy writes:
Hey JW,
Did you see where McCain is leading....hehehe
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/28/gallup-poll-shows-mccain-ahead-of-obama/
Not good for the plastic messiah...he is also losing the Hillary voters support....hehehe
I wonder if the plastic messiah will pick Hillary???
July 28, 2008
7:41 PM
Facts Are Still Facts writes:
Can anyone tell me why Obama is not 20+ points ahead of McCain after his victory tour of Europe?
Why can't Obama pull ahead in the polls against McBush the incumbent?
If he is tied with the guy representing another 4 years of Bush, doesn't that mean Obama has lost the election?
Anyone?
July 28, 2008
8:46 PM
history buff writes:
Well, little buddy, it's like this. Americans have always been criticized by Europeans and other foreigners that we take democracy too seriously. Here we are after eight years of incompetence. Americans tend to be apathetic, but when things clearly become unclear, dark, black and muddied, Americans reach for something that is completely American, that no one who isn't from here could understand. That is why the electorate is uncertain about who should be president.
You sound like you watch a lot of tv. Maybe listen to a lot of talk radio. But most of us make up our minds in a different way. We aren't watching polls. We aren't watching too much political tv. Democracy is part of our lives. We accept it without realizing how great our nation is by securing our freedoms, making it possible for us to live good and decent lives.
It is not until we face a crisis that we are called upon to live up to the great ideals that are the foundation of our nation. It is at such a time that we do not want to make another mistake as we did in 2000 and 2004. Just because Obama is of a different party than the current failure in the oval office, does not mean he is the answer.
I am hopeful that Obama will live up to the stature of the other presidents from Illinois. A man from humble origins who is called to greatness. I know I could be wrong, but after listening to the total negativity of the McCain campaign over the past two or three weeks, I'm ready to take a chance on the man who is trying to be president of all the people.
July 29, 2008
8:10 AM
JW writes:
"Not good for the plastic messiah...he is also losing the Hillary voters support....hehehe
I wonder if the plastic messiah will pick Hillary???"
If he doesnt, hes stupid. Period. That is just a no brainer, and I dont care how they obfuscate the issue with their bs "Well Hillary is so hated...she's so devisive..." Blah blah blah...She got half the votes from a record Primary turnout. Deal with it, and put her on the ticket.
As for the gallup poll, yes, it looks like there may be a shake up at the moment. The "Poll of Polls" reported a change as well, though that was Obama taking a larger lead. All in all, I guess we will just have to give it some time. .
"Obama's trip proves that he is more interested in the adoring accolades of those who descended from the people that Hitler duped, than he is about solving American problems."
Judge not lest...
But I suppose that doesnt apply to you Hogar. Youre God's right hand man, yea?
It would be nice if you would learn how to judge in an intelectually honest manor though. As analysis goes, your judgement of Obama's trip is sophomoric in the extreme. Its basically a product of your irrational hatred of the man, and that makes it unobjective in the extreme. I have to say that even an unobjective jackass like yourself should be able to come up with something a bit less idiotic, but I guess not.
"And by the way, the war in Iraq is not a major porblem."
Yea, who cares about all the kids dying because of the Bush admin's hubris. Who cares about all the Vets coming back with major medical and mental problems the VA is apparently not able to deal with. Who cares that we have to put our troops on prozac because they are so messed up from being overly deployed. They signed up for it! Its their own damn fault! And who cares that the majority of the nation thinks it is a huge issue? Who cares that its been pretty much the central issue in America since it started? Hogar says it isnt a big deal...so I guess its not a big deal!
"WWII consumed 37% of GDP, Iraq consumes less than 1% of GDP."
This is a nice fact, but only an IDIOT would compare the two. The modern world, and its economies, are not anything like they were, and the differences between then and now are so extreme I wont even TRY to explain them to you. Mostly because your stupid, but also becasue youre an ideologue who wouldnt get it even if I did explain it in a manor even an idiot could understand.
"Is it important? Yes, but it is not the fiasco that the Bush haters want to make it out to be."
Actually it is. It didnt HAVE to be, but the hubris of the Bush admin made it so. The fact that Petraeus is good at what he does and has made alot of progress doesnt change anything. Bush still fucked it up from the get go, again, out of pure hubris. How the hell does a guy who's military experience amounted to flying a jet now and then, and going awol to sniff coke and pound beers end up thinking he can set policy during a major war? Hubris.
July 29, 2008
10:30 AM
jay writes:
shaggy...it sounds like we're done here...as you seem to be acknowledging that the surge failed.
are we clear there?
facty...i'll ask again in the hope you'll have the intellectual honesty to answer the question.
why in the world do you believe either candidate in a presidential race at this point would be "20-30 points ahead"? is this opinion based on past races or are you just pulling these numbers out of your butt?
furthermore, were you not aware that obama has been consistently ahead of mcsame for MONTHS?
sounds like a case of willful ignorance once again...
July 29, 2008
12:25 PM
KW writes:
USA Today/Gallup has McCain leading Obama 49% to 44% among "likely" voters today. Obama has I think only 2-3 pts over McCain among "registered" voters
And even Rasmussen Daily Tracking is showing no more than a 2 pt spread.
This seems more like a sonic boom than a backfire.
July 29, 2008
12:41 PM
jay writes:
kw, as we've established...most of the youth vote isn't included in the "likely voters" polling...thus its inaccuracy.
leading consistently for months.
come to terms with it.
July 29, 2008
12:53 PM
KW writes:
Do me a favor jay, explain your "thus its inaccuracy" theory to Gore and Kerry.
I'm sure that'll pep 'em up some, hmm?
July 29, 2008
1:28 PM
jay writes:
what does the youth vote not being included in likely voters have to do with gore and/or kerry, kw?
July 29, 2008
2:04 PM
Shaggy writes:
KW,
I really think Obama has already peeked as high as he can go and now it is time to come back down.
His bubble has a slow leak in it right now but it is unfixable and will continue to bleed voters McCains way.
I know you aren't a big McCain supporter either but he will be better than Obama.
It is simple, people are starting to realize how far left and who this guy is.
16 months ago none of us even knew who he was.
People are now finding out how egotistical and naive he is and it isn't pretty.
The majority are finding out they just can't put much trust in him like they can McCain.
July 29, 2008
2:35 PM
jay writes:
"I know you aren't a big McCain supporter either but he will be better than Obama"
and here we get back to policy.
good.
what policies of mccain's do you feel will peform better than obama's corresponding policy?
oh...and which of obama's policy stances are "far left"?
shaggy...i haven't seen you hold a discussion about actual policy stances for months.
here's your chance.
July 29, 2008
3:12 PM
Anonymous writes:
jay, I have told you the differences so many times I am done with it..
same goes with Obamas far left stances.
Go to his voting record and see for yourself.
July 31, 2008
4:11 PM
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