December 10, 2008 8:21 AM
It's 'call-in-gay' day - and Newsweek says the bible isn't hostile to gay marriage
Activists are urging gays to participate in today's 'Day Without a Gay'.
The idea for the protest started in California with Sean Hetherington, a West Hollywood comedian and personal trainer. He dreamed up the idea with his boyfriend, Aaron Hartzler, after reading that gay-rights activists were calling for a daylong strike to protest California's passage of Proposition 8. That ballot measure reversed a state Supreme Court decision allowing gay marriage.The couple thought it would be more effective and less divisive if people were asked to perform community service instead of staying home with their wallets shut.
Not everyone is keen on the idea.
"It's extra-challenging for people to think about taking off work as a form of protest, given that we are talking about people who may not be out (as gay) at work, and given the current economic situation and job market," said Jules Graves, 38, coordinator of the Colorado Queer Straight Alliance. "There is really not any assurance employers would appreciate it for what it is."
Graves' group nonetheless is arranging for interested participants to volunteer at the local African Community Center in Denver. The agency said it could find projects to keep 20 people busy, but so far only 10 have pledged to show up, Graves said.
Meanwhile, Newsweek's Lisa Miller writes that a careful reading of the Bible doesn't support those who cite divine inspiration for opposing gay marriage.
Let's try for a minute to take the religious conservatives at their word and define marriage as the Bible does. Shall we look to Abraham, the great patriarch, who slept with his servant when he discovered his beloved wife Sarah was infertile? Or to Jacob, who fathered children with four different women (two sisters and their servants)? Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon and the kings of Judah and Israel--all these fathers and heroes were polygamists. The New Testament model of marriage is hardly better. Jesus himself was single and preached an indifference to earthly attachments--especially family. The apostle Paul (also single) regarded marriage as an act of last resort for those unable to contain their animal lust. "It is better to marry than to burn with passion," says the apostle, in one of the most lukewarm endorsements of a treasured institution ever uttered. Would any contemporary heterosexual married couple--who likely woke up on their wedding day harboring some optimistic and newfangled ideas about gender equality and romantic love--turn to the Bible as a how-to script?Of course not, yet the religious opponents of gay marriage would have it be so.
The battle over gay marriage has been waged for more than a decade, but within the last six months--since California legalized gay marriage and then, with a ballot initiative in November, amended its Constitution to prohibit it--the debate has grown into a full-scale war, with religious-rhetoric slinging to match. Not since 1860, when the country's pulpits were full of preachers pronouncing on slavery, pro and con, has one of our basic social (and economic) institutions been so subject to biblical scrutiny. But whereas in the Civil War the traditionalists had their James Henley Thornwell--and the advocates for change, their Henry Ward Beecher--this time the sides are unevenly matched. All the religious rhetoric, it seems, has been on the side of the gay-marriage opponents, who use Scripture as the foundation for their objections.
December 10, 2008
8:45 AM
DenverTea writes:
Th bible actually has passages that condone gays, and one passage in particular says gays will have an honored place in heaven. I believe it is Jeremiah, but I could be wrong, I will go look it up.
December 10, 2008
9:08 AM
Shaggy writes:
Can you believe what the uproar would be if it was all Christians taking the day off?
I for one am sick of special interest groups trying to force their personal agendas on us.
This includes illegals.
December 10, 2008
9:17 AM
JW writes:
"Can you believe what the uproar would be if it was all Christians taking the day off?"
If they just had their ability to marry removed? I wouldnt have a problem with them protesting that by taking the day off at all Shaggy. You, as usual, are an idiot.
"All the religious rhetoric, it seems, has been on the side of the gay-marriage opponents, who use Scripture as the foundation for their objections. "
And this is why it has no place in CIVIL LAW. When you take one Religion's scripture and turn it into Civil Law, forcing all to abide by it, you subvert the freedom of religion EVERYONE is entitled to in this country.
December 10, 2008
9:20 AM
Truth writes:
So I guess that 40acres and Sasquatch will spend the day on the town. Maybe have lunch, buy some lingerie and see a matinee of "Milk". Maybe they will bump into Shags and Broppy.
December 10, 2008
9:28 AM
JW writes:
"GOD does NOT condone it."
I hear he doesnt condone eating shell fish either.
But MY GOD says homosexuals are just people, and entitled to all the rights everyone else has. The Flying Spaghetti Monster doesnt care who sleeps with who, so long as they are consenting adults its their business and no one elses.
So Anthony1979, which religous scripture should we use for the basis of Civil (or Criminal for that matter) Law? Yours, or mine?
According to the Constitution...NEITHER.
December 10, 2008
9:31 AM
Anthony1979 writes:
DenverTea...please do! because MY Bible says in Leviticus 18 (v4) "You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God." (v22) "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." How you get "condone"d is beyond me...good luck lookin...it's sad that people twist up words in the Bible and verses to get them to mean what they want it to mean. I think these verses say pretty clearly where God stands on the subject.
I'm not a gaybasher or homophobe by any means, I have relatives that are homosexual and they know where I stand on the subject and still visit on holidays and birthdays, but when you bring Biblical facts and truth into play. Well, facts are facts and truth is truth...GOD does NOT condone it.
I believe gays should be able to have SOME rights married couples have excluding the right to file joint income taxes and marriage itself because that is not the "natural family", something humanity has been based on since the beginning of time.
December 10, 2008
9:34 AM
Shaggy writes:
I am shocked that JW doesn't recognize the sacred union between a man and a woman... shocked I tell you.
I am sure if he were god for a day he would make sure Martha could marry Fido.
December 10, 2008
9:36 AM
Robert writes:
AIDS is the prevelant sickness of Gay's with eventually death . Hmmmm Do I need to say more?
The rectum is for discharging waste only
GOD RULES
RAC
December 10, 2008
9:41 AM
history buff writes:
JW writes:
"GOD does NOT condone it."
I hear he doesnt condone eating shell fish either."
Does that mean it is a sin to take my office staff to Red Lobster for the Christmas Eve lunch? Macaroni Grill here we come.
December 10, 2008
9:43 AM
Truth writes:
So I guess soon, Shaggy will be lobbying for a "Call in Retarded" day to raise awareness of the plight and discrimination that he and his face each and every day.
December 10, 2008
9:46 AM
Shaggy writes:
Serious, I wonder how many guys are showing up to work today even if they are gravely ill?
December 10, 2008
9:49 AM
CT1975 writes:
This is a Civil issue, not a religous issue. I know "in god we trust" is all over our money and politicans say it at the end of speeches, but the simple fact is god does not make our laws, we do. In the United States of America people should be treated equal.
I am married (man and man), but I do not need to call it marriage if that gets the people upset. Called it what you will. Just give the same benefits. We are people! We just want to live our lives with the person we love, respect, and admire. Is that so wrong?
December 10, 2008
9:49 AM
CT1975 writes:
This is a Civil issue, not a religous issue. I know "in god we trust" is all over our money and politicans say it at the end of speeches, but the simple fact is god does not make our laws, we do. In the United States of America people should be treated equal.
I am married (man and man), but I do not need to call it marriage if that gets the people upset. Called it what you will. Just give the same benefits. We are people! We just want to live our lives with the person we love, respect, and admire. Is that so wrong?
December 10, 2008
9:51 AM
JW writes:
"I am shocked that JW doesn't recognize the sacred union between a man and a woman... shocked I tell you.
I am sure if he were god for a day he would make sure Martha could marry Fido."
I am shocked that Shaggy relies yet again on a strawman argument...shocked I tell you.
I am sure if he had a legitimate argument he wouldnt, but he doesnt, so he has to.
December 10, 2008
9:52 AM
Shaggy writes:
So now Truth hates gays, women, transsexuals and the mental ill.
And you call yourself an understanding Liberal.
Idiot!
December 10, 2008
9:53 AM
Pahnkayx writes:
"So Anthony1979, which religous scripture should we use for the basis of Civil (or Criminal for that matter) Law? Yours, or mine?
According to the Constitution...NEITHER.""
This might have been the single greatest statement i have read this whole arguement. i am pleased and impressed, and a point is made. everyone should have the same rightss, be they gay or not. and due to this little matter of keeping chruch and state separate, its important to remember our founding fathers words.
December 10, 2008
9:56 AM
Anonymous writes:
Until everyone can marry who ever and what ever they choose, the gays should shut the hell up with their wish for special rights. I dont have the right to marry mulitple wives, I dont have the right to marry my brother or sister, I dont have the right to marry my animals, which in Sweden beastiality is legal, so why cant we copy that great european system you left tards always rave about? The answser is SIMPLE, enough you retards were brainwashed to believe gays are people and totally normal, its only a matter time before enough of you are brainwashed that the next perversion is nornal and acceptable and then you force it down the rest of societys throats.
December 10, 2008
9:58 AM
PDX1958 writes:
Yet another reason I gave up organized religion!!!! It's their way or the highway...HYPOCRITES!!!!
December 10, 2008
9:58 AM
ME writes:
I agree with Anthony1979 regarding the scripture
MY Bible says in Leviticus 18 (v4) "You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God." (v22) "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
There is no scripture in the bible where God condones being gay so you can stop looking for that one.
I have no issues with people being gay loving who they wanna love i feel to each it's own but when they put in on the ballot and asked for my opinion i simply gave it i don't agree with gay marriage and i'm really sick of people comparing it to the civil rights movement etc...there is no comparison!
December 10, 2008
10:00 AM
BTW writes:
Anthony1979 says:
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
So then God doesn't have a problem with lesbians?
December 10, 2008
10:01 AM
gr8fuldude writes:
Being in a biracial marriage, I can see both sides of this issue, but I think BOTH sides need to take a step back and refine their arguments somewhat. Lots of name calling and distortion on both sides.
As far as I am concerned, let people marry their toaster ovens for all I care.
On this same note, did anyone catch the series finale of "Boston Legal"? Two males who were friends but straight were going to "marry" to avoid taxes on an inheritance (one guy was terminally ill)...I thought it was interesting to see the issue twisted yet further. Good food for thought.
December 10, 2008
10:02 AM
me2 writes:
Someone has to say it. Who cares what the Bible says? This isn't a religious question, it is a civil rights question.
December 10, 2008
10:02 AM
Anonymous writes:
Until everyone can marry who ever and what ever they choose, the gays should shut the hell up with their wish for special rights. I dont have the right to marry mulitple wives, I dont have the right to marry my brother or sister, I dont have the right to marry my animals, which in Sweden beastiality is legal, so why cant we copy that great european system you left tards always rave about? The answser is SIMPLE, enough you retards were brainwashed to believe gays are people and totally normal, its only a matter time before enough of you are brainwashed that the next perversion is nornal and acceptable and then you force it down the rest of societys throats.
December 10, 2008
10:04 AM
Ben writes:
"In the United States of America people should be treated equal."
Gays can marry, they aren't being deprived of anything. They just can't marry each other. Like a polygamist can marry, just not multiple times.
It isn't about love. It is about advancing the gay agenda and power.
December 10, 2008
10:04 AM
CT1975 writes:
Wow, no wonder we can't settle issues. I am all for freedom of speech, but to be so negative towards someone else. I do not understand it. Name calling and, come on, to relate this to being able to marry an animal or sibling?
I know this is a heated issue, but why the names?
December 10, 2008
10:06 AM
CaliGirl writes:
Who cares! What does it matter to you people anyway! How does this affect YOUR own personal lives? Come on now, get over it. Life is too short to focus on what your neighbors Ned and Fred are doing under the sheets! They are still humans! How would you feel if you couldnt be with the person YOU love? Jees people! Thats the problem! Worry about your own lives and keep your noses out of everyone elses! AND PLEASE!. . .Let us stop using the bible and childrens education for that matter! Life is too short to be bitter. BE HAPPY!
December 10, 2008
10:07 AM
BTW writes:
Anthony1979 says:
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
So then God is OK with lesbians?
December 10, 2008
10:11 AM
larry the plumber writes:
I wonder what Senator Craigs stance is on this issue?
December 10, 2008
10:14 AM
CT1975 writes:
Wow, no wonder this issue is so difficult to resolve...all the name calling. We all have deep emotional ties to either side of the issue, but there can be no middle ground? What a shame.
December 10, 2008
10:20 AM
comeonyall writes:
ME, how is it not like the civil rights movement? african americans wanted equal rights, and old white people were against it. gays now want equal rights, and old Christians are against it. there are gay african americans, ya know? so that's like a double civil rights movement!
anyway, i'm so tired of everyone (liberals and conservatives) using the Bible as their own personal doctrine of hate. i'm a gay Christian (i know, what a conundrum), and i know that God loves me just like he loves a murderer or an adulterer. it's so odd to me that homosexuality is put up on a pulpit as the greatest sin ever. heck, its not even listed as one of the Catholics' Mortal sins (and don't tell me that lust is the same thing, b/c there's no lust involved in a long-term, committed, monogamous gay relationship. and yes, those do exist.). i'm not gonna say "live and let live" or "church and state should be separated". That's not possible when the people are the one's who decide the laws, and i understand that until views change on the matter, i won't get to be married. it's fine. one day, everyone will be happy, and we'll look back on these times and be confounded by the animosity and confusion of it all. just remember that good things come to those who wait (but not necessarily if you're waiting for a nuclear bomb to kill everyone who believes differently than you do.) Happy holidays everyone!
December 10, 2008
10:24 AM
mark writes:
I stand behind the gays 100% and i encourage them to call off the remaining 364 days of the year.
December 10, 2008
10:34 AM
jw writes:
Robert, you are not a compationate individual.
You are actually a sick person with your comments.
And anthony1979, I believe church and state are SUPPOSE to be seperate. I don't believe in the same things you believe, so let me be an individual. If the church wants to have something to say in our laws, THEN THEY SHOULD PAY TAXES!!!!!!!!!! Let it all be equal. They can not have it both ways.
December 10, 2008
10:36 AM
charles johnson writes:
im a gay man all u people r very stupid on the gays wanting additional rights we just want equal rights nothing more . this was like the same issues the blacks went through to get equal rights aswell. - i hope some of u people think where alot of us gays work and what we do for others, we are police , fire, medical field employees and everywhere else. i would thik u would have a diffrent idea if u had a badge saying gays shouldnt have equal rights on ur chest when u were in an E R for a life threating accident and most the staff were pissed off gays. would u want them to help u or let u deal with it on ur own. or expect to get the same treatment no matter what u were if gay or str8. u might think this is diffrent but its not just the situation -the discrimination is the same but the str8 person was discriminated against would it be ok then. and for all u people that say the bible says --- {THE BIBLE WAS WROTE BY MAN AND MAN LIES} SO NOW HOW DO U BIBLE THUMPERS LIKE THAT
December 10, 2008
10:42 AM
Truth writes:
Charles - You might make your point a little more pursuasively if you di dnot sound like an illiterate. You might want to read some Dr. Suess. Start with "The Cat in the Hat", or is there a gay version. Maybe "The Gay by the Bay"?
December 10, 2008
10:43 AM
Larry writes:
I am not going to get in the name calling but I would say this. The Truth is God's Word and if you believe it or not we all are going to answer one day for our actions right and wrong. if you want to believe that or not.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
December 10, 2008
10:45 AM
Coke writes:
Why stop at 'Day without a Gay' ? 'Year without a Queer' sounds much better.
December 10, 2008
10:45 AM
I care writes:
Just so that everyone is clear, the Bible clearly states that homosexuality IS not acceptable in God's eyes. Read on:
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders.
Unless you are born again and change from your ways, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. I am not against the gay person, just the acts. I strongly believe that you are not born gay. It's a life changing choice. If God wanted you to be gay, he would have made you a man/woman.
December 10, 2008
10:47 AM
Connie G. Paeglow writes:
Why it is so important that people flaunt their differences. I do wholeheartedly believe in people being allowed to be who they are, to become who they wish to be, as long as it is in keeping with whom they feel they are inside. As to religion and the Bible, both can be used to hide atrocities and to prove whatever view you wish to push upon others - it is called personal interpretation. Personally, live simple, do unto others, and celebrate life! Believe in the power of one and grow/shine in the connection being a part of a group, regardless of how unique it is, affords you!
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me..."
December 10, 2008
10:50 AM
Connie G. Paeglow writes:
Why it is so important that people flaunt their differences. I do wholeheartedly believe in people being allowed to be who they are, to become who they wish to be, as long as it is in keeping with whom they feel they are inside. As to religion and the Bible, both can be used to hide atrocities and to prove whatever view you wish to push upon others - it is called personal interpretation. Personally, live simple, do unto others, and celebrate life! Believe in the power of one and grow/shine in the connection being a part of a group, regardless of how unique it is, affords you!
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me..."
December 10, 2008
10:53 AM
Larry writes:
I am not going to get in the name calling but I would say this. The Truth is God's Word and if you believe it or not we all are going to answer one day for our actions right and wrong. if you want to believe that or not.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
December 10, 2008
10:57 AM
Observer writes:
Charles,
Blacks were born that way. They didn't have a choice.
Yes it is argued that gays are born that way too but being gay doesn't mean you have to preform the act.
Blacks were treated as inferior, gays are not, again, it is the sexual behavior of gays that people find discusting, not the individual him/herself.
Totally different scenarios.
The sacred union of Marriage is between man & woman.
December 10, 2008
11:01 AM
p miami writes:
LOL, 'call-in-gay'! Are you kidding me? Do gay people really think they can make a dent that is big enough to get noticed by "call-in-gay"? Why don’t they just all get together and buy a small island, where they can live their life’s as “gay” as they want.
December 10, 2008
11:04 AM
dan writes:
robert wrote:
The rectum is for discharging waste only
GOD RULES
RAC
Well, robert, now we know the circumstances of your birth.
December 10, 2008
11:06 AM
p miami writes:
LOL, 'call-in-gay'! Are you kidding me? Do gay people really think they can make a dent that is big enough to get noticed by "call-in-gay"? Why don’t they just all get together and buy a small island, where they can live their life’s as “gay” as they want.
December 10, 2008
11:07 AM
MileHighPatriot writes:
Hahaha... this one opened with a comedian. DenverTea... where did you get your bible from? Someone already answered you. Funny Funny!
According to the Bible, God hates all sin, and loves all people. He considers having SEX outside of marriage, and with the same sex a sin.
If you think you can contradict, please do.
December 10, 2008
11:11 AM
Tommy Roberson writes:
DenverTea:
You better go look it up now because you will be looking for a long time.I have been studying the Bible for over 20 years & I have 7 years of Bible college & I have never seen anything that OK's Homosexuality.I can show you verses to be taken literally that say it is wrong but you only have vague attempts to screw up Scripture.
December 10, 2008
11:11 AM
Jaz writes:
People don't live in bed, so I don't care what they do. Straight people are pretty good at ruining marriages, why not give the gays a chance to make a mockery of it too?
With all the Bible and "word of God" being thrown around can I just point out that the even though the Bible is supposed to be the word of the Lord, the Lord himself did not sit down and write that book. MAN did. Sometimes things get lost in translation.
For all the "Godly" people on hear preaching...Who are you to be casting judgement on others? Judging is not your job that is HIS. You may have a right to your opinion but you have to right to make others feel badly about their own opinions.
December 10, 2008
11:12 AM
dan writes:
robert wrote:
The rectum is for discharging waste only
GOD RULES
RAC
Well, robert, now we know the circumstances of your birth.
December 10, 2008
11:13 AM
MileHighPatriot writes:
Hahaha... this one opened with a comedian. DenverTea... where did you get your bible from? Someone already answered you. Funny Funny!
According to the Bible, God hates all sin, and loves all people. He considers having SEX outside of marriage, and with the same sex a sin.
If you think you can contradict, please do.
December 10, 2008
11:14 AM
Anonymous writes:
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
December 10, 2008
11:14 AM
ColoradanReadingFromNY writes:
Don't worry about the multiple postings, ANTHONY... funniest thing I've read in a while:
"it's sad that people twist up words in the Bible and verses to get them to mean what they want it to mean. I think these verses say pretty clearly where God stands on the subject."
And who has twisted the words of the bible for centuries? "Pretty clearly" huh?!? That's priceless!
December 10, 2008
11:17 AM
jay writes:
as usual folks, your beliefs in the supernatural are NEVER justification for discrimination against people because of their color, gender or sexual orientation.
December 10, 2008
11:18 AM
Dan writes:
It's not a religious issue. Its not really a Civil rights issue. It's an issue of taxes and the government not wanting to deal with yet another group trying to take advantage of the system for their own personal benefit.
If Gays were given the right to circumvent the taxes, etc. then whose next people who can marry animals?
It exposes too much risk for those who live outside the rules to take advantage of the system. Thus, since it cannot be controlled, then taxes will remain the same and government will be able to continue to grow.
Especailly with Obama in office now. Watch the taxes go sky high!
December 10, 2008
11:21 AM
gr8fuldude writes:
Shaggy writes: "Can you believe what the uproar would be if it was all Christians taking the day off?"
Maybe I missed something, but isn't that already called Sunday?
December 10, 2008
11:23 AM
CHARLES JOHNSON writes:
GAYS ARE BORN GAY TOO. OK AND I GUESS ALL THE HILLBILLIES THAT ATTACKED BLACKS FOR BEING BLACK WAS NOT RGHT CAUSE THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY. DID U GET TO CHOOSE TO BE STR8 OR DID IT JUST HAPPEN. BUT IF UR GAY ITS A CHOICE. SO IF UR GAY AND ATTACED FOR THAT THEN ITS OK CAUSE UR GAY AND U HAVE A CHOICE- THERE ARE ALOT OF HATE CRIMES OUT THERE THAT THE NEWS JUST DONT SHOW. THEN AS FAR AS SEX GOES MAYBE U DONT NEED TO HAVE RELATIONS WITH YOUR WIFE OR GF.DONT THE BIBLE SAY NO SEX WITH OUT MARRIAGE BUT U DO THAT TOO RIGHT AND IM SURE U HAVE CHEATED ON SOMEONE IN LIFE AND THATS OK TOO RIGHT - AND ALL OF U THAT SAY MARRIAGE SHOULD BE MAN AND WOMAN IS A CROCK -- ITS SUPPOSE TO BE FOR LIFE TOO - BUT LOOK AT DIVORCE RATE. THE BIBLE IS MIND CONTROL TOO U HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE BEHIND SINCE U CANT BE A PERSON ANYOTHER WAY THAN BE TOLD HOW TO ACT AND UR BELIEFS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANOTHER PERSONS A BELIEF IS JUST THAT A BELIEF -- NOT RIGHTS -- AND IF U DONT LIKE WHAT I TYPE OR IF U SEE ANY ERRORS CAUSE I TYPE FAST AND ANGRY THE GET OVER THAT TOO I DONT CARE - U GET THE JUST OF THINGS - AND FOR ALL U GUYS OUT THERE THAT ARE MARRIED AND ON GAY WEB SITES LOOKING FOR BJS AND SEX I GUESS UR STR8 TOO RIGHT CAUSE U GO BACK TO UR WIFE AFTER U PLAY THE OTHER SIDE AND HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER SAYING IM STR8 IM MARRIED -- PLEASE
December 10, 2008
11:32 AM
Dan writes:
It's not a religious issue. Its not really a Civil rights issue. It's an issue of taxes and the government not wanting to deal with yet another group trying to take advantage of the system for their own personal benefit.
If Gays were given the right to circumvent the taxes, etc. then whose next people who can marry animals?
It exposes too much risk for those who live outside the rules to take advantage of the system. Thus, since it cannot be controlled, then taxes will remain the same and government will be able to continue to grow.
Especailly with Obama in office now. Watch the taxes go sky high!
December 10, 2008
11:33 AM
Truth writes:
Charles - Are you getting more drunk as the morning goes on? That is how you sound.
Drinking that much is unhealthy for you.
December 10, 2008
11:33 AM
Anthony1979 writes:
JW...constitution aside (I think liberals have shoved down our throats the separation of church and state) the topic I was addressing was DenverTea saying that homosexuality is condoned in the Bible. It is not, that's my only point. The rest was just my beliefs, and since this is a free country...I can say what I like...right? Just as you can...
December 10, 2008
11:36 AM
danny writes:
Robert wrote:
The rectum is for discharging waste only
GOD RULES
RAC
Thanks, Robert, for revealing the circumstances of your birth.
December 10, 2008
11:38 AM
Ron writes:
I find this whole string disturbing. A couple points from my perspective
-The constitution never says 'separation of church and state', that comes from a supreme court justice who took it from letters by founding fathers (Jefferson). And, if you read the context of those letters, the whole point was to protect the church from the gov't, not the other way around. For more on the subject, read a book called 'Original Intent'. Courts were originally designed to interpret the law--lately it has been more bench legislation which is dangerous.
-I am a Christian, I also believe that the bible says that homosexuality is wrong but it also says a lot of things I do are wrong too. Now, I work everyday to recognize and minimize these things but it says that every man is born with sin. I have yet to find where it ranks sins and says that this is worse than that.
-There seems to be a lot of people taking offense here. If you are truly secure in who you are, why do you need other people to agree in order to feel good about you? I don't approve of you being gay, who cares? You probably don't approve of some of my actions or beliefs. That is what makes the country great, our differences.
-God does call us to love everybody but that doesn't mean I have to agree with their actions. If you are a christian and you are persecuting someone who is gay, are you not sinning too?
-Somebody made the point about saving their life and I think that is a little exagerated. We are talking about a right to marry, not letting somebody die.
-Ultimately though, this is a legal thing. The popular vote in California (and plenty of other states) says that they don't believe gay marriage should be legal. What is the legal process for this? Is it unconstitutional? Then fight it there. Or, continue to build an understanding of your lifestyle so that it can eventually be voted down. Somehow though, I don't think by calling out sick and skipping work are you going to make people sympathetic to your cause--you are just going to make them look for reasons to fire you.
December 10, 2008
11:43 AM
Observer writes:
Does this mean that Shaggy, Sascrotch, 40Ounces and Ben (Never Intelligent) will be demanding a "Call in Stupid Day" soon?
Just asking.
December 10, 2008
11:47 AM
CT1975 writes:
Gays don't have a choice to be gay or not. I guess we do decide to either act or not act, but we are still gay. There are enough of "us" to make a difference if "we" do not come to work, pay taxes, etc... We Matter to society. EVERY SINGLE PERSON MATTERS IN SOCIETY.
December 10, 2008
11:47 AM
jay writes:
"If Gays were given the right to circumvent the taxes, etc. then whose next people who can marry animals?"
we've debunked this ridiculous right wing talking point more times that i'd care to remember, dan.
don't you guys have better excuses for your bigotry?
December 10, 2008
11:48 AM
Dan writes:
It's not a religious issue. Its not really a Civil rights issue. It's an issue of taxes and the government not wanting to deal with yet another group trying to take advantage of the system for their own personal benefit.
If Gays were given the right to circumvent the taxes, etc. then whose next people who can marry animals?
It exposes too much risk for those who live outside the rules to take advantage of the system. Thus, since it cannot be controlled, then taxes will remain the same and government will be able to continue to grow.
Especailly with Obama in office now. Watch the taxes go sky high!
December 10, 2008
11:56 AM
miami writes:
LOL, 'call-in-gay'! Are you kidding me? Do gay people really think they can make a dent that is big enough to get noticed by "call-in-gay"? Why don’t they just all get together and buy a small island, where they can live their life’s as “gay” as they want.
December 10, 2008
12:00 PM
Shaggy writes:
Dude,
Christians don't use Sunday to protest equal rights, they use it to observe their belief.
I don't see people who want to work Sundays or x-mas in protest.
If Christians demanded a no work day it would be blasted by all sinners.
You know that is true!
December 10, 2008
12:01 PM
La writes:
This is the dumbest issue to debate...clearly the rectum is not meant for sex..somehow it got twisted into that so here we are today with men running around saying they love their man..it's not even natural. When someone is gay they clearly had issues growing up because no one comes out like "oh ok i like the same sex as me"
WTF...I will always vote against same sex marrige,
same sex anytyhing..I have gay friends and I don't agree with what they do but they are some really nice people it's just their lifestyle that is sick..I think gay people need therapy. Most regular people need therapy but even more if you are in love with the same sex come on now..not normal!!!!
December 10, 2008
12:03 PM
SASQUATCH writes:
SENATE SEATS FOR SALE:
Please call Blago, Rezko, Obamo or inquire at your local DNC HQs. Relocation to Chicago may be required, competitive bennies, payola and bribes, no experience required.
We are a gay-friendly organization.
December 10, 2008
12:04 PM
Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russel writes:
We're doing just fine, thanks but we still don't think gays should marry.
December 10, 2008
12:07 PM
Naja writes:
I've read most of the messages on this page and one thing is clear. Americans still use religion as a way of controlling the masses. Did anyone ever stop to think that gays and lesbians don't only want the right to marry or have a CIVIL union to satisfy some sexual desire. We also want the right to take care of our partners in a time of need, file jointly on taxes and be affored the same rights as those heterosexuals who do marry to satisfy some sexual desire. Christians are the biggest hypocrites alive. You are doing exactly what your Bible tells you not to do...JUDGE! Who are YOU to judge the things I do in the privacy of my own home & life with the person I choose to be with?! Do I ridicule you for marrying someone only to have sex, procreate and then divorce?! WHY do you even CARE who I sleep with? As long as it's not YOU or YOURS, it shouldn't be any of your concern. If you spent half the time you spend on bashing HUMAN BEINGS for the decisions they make and start educating yourselves, I believe this world would be a much better place.
Oh and another thing. Civil unions don't only benefit gays & lesbians. They also benefit those who choose to live in Common Law Marriages....or did you forget those.....Let's ask Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russel how their DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP is going shall we....
December 10, 2008
12:09 PM
jay writes:
"If Christians demanded a no work day it would be blasted by all sinners."
pure ignorance.
i would support christians right to marry as much as i support gays.
i would hope christians would have a more christian attitude about this issue.
December 10, 2008
12:10 PM
Ashley writes:
When god (WHICH god?) makes his way to earth and informs us what he wants, I'll buy the god's word argument. Till then, I'm not comfortable taking the word of a bunch of half-literate peasants dead for thousands of years who thought a) they could talk to burning bushes, b) women were unnatural and evil and c) it was perfectly all right to ceremoniously burn/stone those they disagreed with.
Contrary to popular belief, the USA was founded on the principle of freedom of religion for all, without any one religion taking precedent over another. Many of the Founding Fathers were agnostics or outright atheists, and they understood the dangers of making one religion the basis for all decisions made by the state, which is why they separated the two.
It seems to me many religious folks LOVE the separation of church and state when they use it to argue their churches shouldn't pay taxes and the state should not be involved in what they're doing. But when it goes the other way, they holler like stuck pigs.
Aside from biblical (et al) mouthings and blatant homophobia -- and someone explain to me why so many hetero men, in particular, are convinced ALL gays are planning to rape them? -- there is NO reason to say no to gay marriage. If it offends you, don't marry someone of your own gender.
As to the erroneous popular notion gay marriage is all about sex, that's about as bogus as assuming "traditional" marriage is all about sex. You people have dirty, dirty minds otherwise.
And no, gay marriage does not lead to bestiality. Beasts cannot consent; people can.
December 10, 2008
12:18 PM
Shaggy writes:
"Beasts cannot consent; people can."
Baby humans have no consent but Liberals still feel it isn't above their pay grade to decide if they should be terminated.
If gays want to practice their perversion, and it is a perversion, let them do it but save the sacred union of marriage between a man and a woman!
December 10, 2008
12:21 PM
Anonymous writes:
A few subjects addressed:
The Bible def. does not condone gay marriage, and anyone who reads it or seeks a scholarly opinion will find that out.
But Christians and the Bible, and Mormons, (who are not Christians, btw)...are NOT solely responsible for the outcome of Prop 8, nor are they the only ones fighting it.
In regards to the shellfish comment - i suggest you consider a Bible commentary on those things which sound absurd to you, in which you think the Bible suggests we take literally. THAT is absurd to think that. No matter what you are accustomed to - in all cultures, all religions, we need to make note of the historical, cultural, and analagous CONTEXT of what is written my friend.
Commentaries will show you what the writers of Scripture / God-inspired Word meant when it talks about sin - what is prohibited, and why. Even when it comes to refering to what we eat.
Obviously, God does not consider eating Shelfish a sin...or anything of the liking, whether you were serious or joking about that.
I am Christian...i went to Biola University. We love gay people. I love gay people. We are called to love gay people as any other person deserves to be loved. They are people who have the freedom to fight for what they believe in. We also have freedom to vote and express what I have reason to believe in as well. We clash on gay marriage - not because we hate, but because we have logical reason to believe it is not in accordance with what God intends to be best for his humanity as a whole.
God does not hate gays - He loves them. Anyone that calls themselves Christian and says otherwise, or shows hostility toward people who are gay - is not a Christian T ALL. Or maybe they desire to be Christian but are far, far short of truly walking in the spirit. Even Christians have problems that determine there actions, but that does NOT justify hostility tosward anyone.
Let gay people vote however they want -let them even get married. But it is not up to me to decide the final outcome, God does. God judges us, Christians should not because we are judged too. But Christians do have the right to express moral truth...they can still have the right to vote Yes on 8.
If we don't fight for what we believe in like gay people fight for what they believe in - then we are contradicting ourselves; There are so many double standards, I know.
So let EVERYONE strive for what they believe in as it is our freedom - and whatever the outcome is will be allowed to happen because it passed through God's hands first anyway.
If one day gay marriage is legal because of the popular vote, then I won't be the one to judge if gay people decide get married. God will. That doesn't stop me from voting for what i believe and standing firm on it anyway.
For the people who give up on organized religion: Seek truth first - not errant human example of how we should live, even if they call themselves a Christian. What matters is what you believe to be truth in your heart, ultimately. Then we are expected to live that way if what we believe is truly out of dedication.
Of course there's hypocrites in every church, even non-Christians are hypcorites in their daily lives contradicting the words that come out of their mouths! Actually, we're all at some point a hypocrite. How is it in our nature to not be? It doesn't justify that, however.
There are sorry excuses for Christian churches and people, but there are some great amazingly awesome ones as well. You can reject people, but don't let people lead you to reject Truth in Christ. That is not Christs' desire at all. Do keep in mind however, that once you find that truth in Christ, he calls us to uphold and edify one another in a sense of community, making some kind of "organized religion" as you call it, important.
There are terrible mistakes and sins that even leaders in organized religion have made - in personal lives, theological doctrine, etc. That's why we are to seek the truth despite that and we'll find it. But there is also an overwhelming majority of sincerely dedicated people who seek to honor, worship, and follow Christ who are in the church and lead congregations as well.
Among some are also wolves in sheeps clothing, like some corny weird televangelists out there, Benny Hinn-like fools, etc. But then there's Christians like J.P. Moreland, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacariah, Mike Erie, Dallas Willard, Mother Teresa, Chuck Swindoll, Chuck Colson, Billy Graham, etc. etc. etc. God will obviously give us people that lead us in truth if he is the God of the Bible, right? He wouldn't lie to us...
In regards to gays - acting on homosexuality is a sin, but having those feelings and struggling with it isn't necessarily wrong, because God understands that to fight our earthly desires is hard. He gives us the means and good reason to resist them, however, and provides a better way with rewards that are worth it - if we don't act on things against His Will. Just as having sex before marriage is a sin when straight people do it. Hence, stats say some 70 percent of people who do fornicate get divorced. God's natural laws and consequences will carry out no matter what we do. Points: If you can prove that there is a God, which we can - even agnostic historians can prove that, as well as the fact that Christ resurrected, then you can prove Christ was God. There is much cosmological, teleolgoical, ontological, artifactual, historical,etc. evidence that points to all of that. Then there's proof that the Bible is the Word of God. An easy read on that is Lee Stroble - a Case for Creation, A Case for faith, and a Case for Christ, out of the many out there).
But beleive what you will - we have that God given freedom, yes indeed. And voting on whatever believe is not wrong in its essence. What we vote - well, that's up to God to judge. Which votes determine the outcome - thats also a freedom God gives us to carry out in the law. God help us all. Gay people and straight - because we all are equally human and equally loved in God's eyes.
December 10, 2008
12:30 PM
Nancy Talbot writes:
I am not a biblical scholar so I can't really get into a discussion about what it says or doesn't say. The Newsweek article is one of the best written responses to the gay marrage issue I have ever read. It makes sense without condeming any-thing.
My children were brought up by the "golden rule"
of do unto others as you would have them treat you. They are healthy, happy, and have made me a Gramma many times over. They are heterosextual and have begotten their families via marrage and the hard work that goes with sustaining it.
I am homosexual and have had that awareness since I was 6 or 7 years old. I tried to be straight and was in a "successful" marrage for several years. I found I could no longer live the lie and divorced because of it. My husband is/was not a bad fellow, just the wrong gender.
This April I will celebrate 20+ years with my life partner. We would love to "marry" so
we could share ALL the legal benifits straights have. In our hearts we are one and for now that will have to do. We are no threat to your notion of marrage, remarrage, divorce, blended families, single parenting, or whatever else you use to exclude us. In fact, our life is no different than yours except what goes on behind closed doors. If you can focus for a minute on the fact that we worry about money, our jobs, bills, our children's woes, politics, Iraq, global warming, etc.,you would see our similarities.
Some gays are perverted just as a similar percent-age of straights are. Some gays proselytize just as some religons do. You can beat on your Bible all day and spout quotes to support your beliefs but the fact is that the Bible was created more that two millenniums ago and some of the tenents are no longer part of modern society. A few examlpes of that are slavery and poligamy. Women no longer "belong" to their husbands. Christians no longer practice "an eye for and eye". Literal interpretation on the Bible has become very selective and used to fuel the whole homosexual
controversy.
I am not asking to be your BFF. I just want to marry my partner, have the all the rights you do, and continue with my contributions to this ever evolving world. I am no threat to you and your family. You already work with me, accept my services, live near me, interact with me, buy from me, sell to me etc. You just may not know it because I don't always feel safe enough to ex-
pose myself to your belly full of bile towards equal rights for gays, including marrage.
December 10, 2008
12:31 PM
JW writes:
"JW...constitution aside (I think liberals have shoved down our throats the separation of church and state)"
Really? How do you think that religion can be inserted into government or law without infringing on the freedom of religion of others who do not subscribe? Example: If we add Sharia law to our legal code, do you think it would infringe upon your freedom of religion as a Christian?
"the topic I was addressing was DenverTea saying that homosexuality is condoned in the Bible. It is not, that's my only point."
Fair enough. I will point out that I really dont care.
"The rest was just my beliefs, and since this is a free country...I can say what I like...right? Just as you can..."
Correct, and I never said you couldnt. I meerly pointed out that your "beliefs" are no more valid than anyone elses, and therefore, unfit for use as a basis for government policy or law, just as everyone elses are. We have the constitution to use as a measure of the validity of law. And that is the concept behind the freedom of religion rights enshrined in the consitituion. The founders knew what it was like to have one version of a religion used as the basis for law. They understood that this amounted to religious persecution for all citizens who did not agree with that legalized religion. So...freedom of religion, and consequently the seperation of church and state.
On a side note, I find it extremely funny when people such as yourself make comments about "liberals" forcing things on them. Our founding fathers were FLAMING liberals. They wrote the constitution of this great nation, which is nothing more than a document guaranteeing...GASP!....LIBERTIES.
Your idea that the seperation of church and state has to be "forced" down your throat is evidence that you feel your beliefs are in fact superior to others, and can therefore be used as a basis for government policy and the rule of law. After all, if YOUR church is inserted into OUR government, then MY right to freedom of religion is infringed upon because I have to follow YOUR religion as required by LAW.
This really isnt that dificult a concept. Would you, as a Christian, want Islamic religious doctrine used as law? No. Because if you were forced to adhere to Islamic religious doctrine by law, you wouldnt be free in your Christianity.
December 10, 2008
12:31 PM
Ben-Not very religious writes:
"Who are YOU to judge the things I do in the privacy of my own home & life with the person"
Well, when you push your agenda for special considerations and priviledges in the public's face, expect to be judged. Duh....
December 10, 2008
12:34 PM
Sweet writes:
I dont see why people cant get over this. The law is passed. Im not saying its right or wrong but it is what is. Why dont the McCain suppoters rally for a new election since things didnt go their way? Or maybe stand in the streets of LA again just to piss everyone off enough to overturn this.
December 10, 2008
12:37 PM
Steven writes:
It strikes me that the US was founded by some folks who came in search of an opportunity to practice their religion free from persecution. Yet here we are, in the 'new world' using religion to persecute again. If your relgion tells you that it's wrong to be gay or to be gay and be married --- that's simple for you. Just don't do it. It get's ugly when you feel compelled to force your beliefs on others.
I'm not really interested in skydiving, so I don't do it. I don't put forth an argument that folks who skydive shouldn't have access to the things that us non-skydivers have access to.
I don't have any interest in being gay and I don't care if someone else does. If two people consent to something and they don't harm others in that process, they should be left well enough alone.
Fortunately we are making progress in laying to rest the absurd notion that the color of one's skin should restrict them to the back of the bus. It's really about time that we make the same progress with regard to sexual preference.
I respect everyone's right to chose their religion and to believe in earnest in their religion. However Christianity is a very young religion relatively speaking. It's really absurd that one believes it necessary to force their religions laws on others who may not believe that religion has the answer that works for them.
December 10, 2008
12:37 PM
Observer writes:
Nancy - When you decided your husband was the wrong gender, did you ask the court and/or receive any money from him in terms of alimony/child support?
And btw, why was his gender the wrong one? Why not yours?
December 10, 2008
12:40 PM
Tired writes:
I want everyone to ask them selves 1 question. When it comes down to it, why does a book, something that is made of paper and can easily be torn or burned or what ever you want to do with it, hold so much weight that just because it says in a book that being gay is wrong that we should all fall over backwards to accommodate a book. Let me say it again, its a book. I think you all sound like a bunch of morons. The book says we cant be gay, the book says we cant do this,the book says we cant do that, grow up people. (but this is also coming from people that believed someone turned water into wine and someone else parted a whole sea, bunch of retards.) My life is not being disturbed if my gay and lesbian friends want to get married. I am a female and I prefer men, however i also prefer tall over short men and skinny over fat men, and dark haired over light haired men. Its all the same. To all you homo haters, i hope that your kids come home one day and tell you that they prefer same sex partners. Maybe then you will shut the hell up and leave everyone to live their own lives. They are not gays and lesbians, they are people who have feelings and just want someone to love and love them back. Its human nature to love, you jackass.
December 10, 2008
12:40 PM
doubled writes:
2008-12-11, Local workplace.
Jon: "Bob, you came out yesterday, good for you!"
Bob: "Huh? I came out of the bathroom after about 4 hours of the worst stomach bug of my life!"
Jon: "You mean you came out of the closet Bob"
Bob: "What do you mean? I was home sick yesterday"
Jon: "Sure you were Bob. Hey Katrina, guess who came out yesterday..."
*Bob's cell phone rings*
Bob: "Hello? No mom, I was home sick yesterday. Mom, I have s girlfriend! Seriously mom!"
This is for all the poor Bobs and Bobbettes who are out sick today.
December 10, 2008
12:41 PM
history buff writes:
From our posters
"I think liberals have shoved down our throats the separation of church and state
"The constitution never says 'separation of church and state', that comes from a supreme court justice who took it from letters by founding fathers (Jefferson). And, if you read the context of those letters, the whole point was to protect the church from the gov't, not the other way around."
Well, if you actually read the Constitution, you will find there are two clauses in the first amendment.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
When read together, the two clauses form what is commonly known as the separation of church and state. The first clause is just as important as the second. The first amendment does protect the church from the government, but it also protects the public from the government declaring any one church to be the one and only sacred church as recognized by the government. Thus, belief in the bible is not requisite for being a good American.
December 10, 2008
12:50 PM
gman writes:
I don't belive that Gay Marriage is a Civil Rights issue. Civil Rights have been for people who are oppressed because of Race or Gender.
A person's choice of life style should not entitle them to the same benifits as the necular family that this planets population is based on.
As far as religion goes does anyone remember Sodom and Gomarah .That is a city that God laid to waste because of their broad acceptance of a devient life style! Why should we endorse Gay Marriage when we know it might evolk the wrath of God?
December 10, 2008
12:51 PM
TOM writes:
ok people i think some of us think this marriage is only for tax purpose it goes far past that. it reaches to some parts that are heartbreaking aswell. here is an example of a real life issue that some of you people need to know too. what if ur wife or husband was in a terrible accident and the hospital wont allow you to help make decisions on his or her care or right to life or the wishes of the person you have spent your life with and loved that might not be able to let them know what their wishes are some places wont even let them by your side for comfort. Because you dont have the rights even though you have been with them for 10+ yrs and know their wishes your treated like a nobody cause of the way most believe and the legal rights of that piece of paper. Thats not right either. I think Charles made a good point but was very extreme about life or death but it would make people think more. We have the right to say if they can marry or not. An ER emp has our life in their hands and they choose whats right for us at that exact time. Sometimes it is our life and death. We would hope they would do the right thing. I wouldnt want to be the one that wont give them a simple right and have my familys life in their hands at any moment if we had to wear a tag like that would you? They should have the rights as we do they pay their taxes,work,spend money at our companies, cut our hair and everything else. I dont think a right to marry is something we should say no to cause its far more complex than a tax issue. We might not like to think about them having sex and i tink that is most peoples problm with it. We should not judge others and by them being Americans they deserve = rights too in all aspects of life. Let the higher powers judge if its right or not no matter who u belive. Religen should not be a factor in this issue at all. Years ago people never thought a black man would be president either but we accept that and have grown as people to look past color. Now we need to do it on sex issues too..
December 10, 2008
12:53 PM
jay writes:
"Well, when you push your agenda for special considerations and priviledges in the public's face, expect to be judged"
more ignorant drivel from the far religious right.
no one is "pushing" an agenda, benny. and you're gonna have to tell us how equal rights are "special considerations and priviledges".
December 10, 2008
12:57 PM
BTW writes:
Anonymous said
"The answser is SIMPLE, enough you retards were brainwashed to believe gays are people and totally normal"
News flash - gays ARE people.
"its only a matter time before enough of you are brainwashed that the next perversion is nornal and acceptable and then you force it down the rest of societys throats."
Who is trying to make the rest of society gay? You say that gays aren't people - now THATS perverse.
December 10, 2008
1:01 PM
Brian in Evans writes:
Man Evolved. Man wasn't created from play-dough. This isn't Theory, this is well documented FACT. GET OVER IT.
Any and EVERY RELIGION is NO DIFFERENT than reading a Harry Potter Novel...........it's made up.
I think about the ancient Greeks, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the ancient Romans, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the Incas, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the Mayans, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the Aztecs, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the Native American Indians, and their devotion for their religion of worshipping multiple gods, and I wonder, what makes christianity right, and theirs wrong?
I think about the vast number of religions that exist in this day and age, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, that is only the tip of the iceberg. Imagine all the religions through out Africa. Imagine all the religions through out South America.
It never ceases to amaze me, is it arrogance? Or is it Ignorance that makes people scoff at others religions, because only their religion is the correct religion?
December 10, 2008
1:09 PM
Huma Suffrana writes:
What I have never understood is how people can believe in the literalness of some late Bronze Age stories that were passed down by word of mouth for centuries before anybody wrote them down, and then were translated from language to another before being translated into any language that people read today.
What I also don't understand is how supposedly educated people can superimpose their faith and beliefs on issues that are matters of science or law.
Then again, I'm blonde. What can I tell ya?
December 10, 2008
1:14 PM
CT1975 writes:
Tom is right! The issue goes far past taxes. Have any of you even seen "If These Walls Could Talk"? It was a HBO or Showtime movie. Anyways there were two lesbians that lived together and one past away. The other was not able to keep the house, had no legal rights to their life together.
When my husband and I are old and gray I want to be secure in the fact that I can be by his bedside or him mine. Our house, cars, dogs, and money will be his or mine. It is these facts and issues that we as gay men and women are fighting for.
I am lucky I live in Massachusetts and my company allows him on health insurance. These are real issues. These are the main issues that are not brought up.
December 10, 2008
1:14 PM
traveler writes:
I find it interesting that today people are so concerned with things such as if a person is gay or not. People need to remember that the bible was inspired by God but actually written down by man....therefore who knows what was God's true message and how have we, a group of people thousands of years later interpret what was written in another time and language. Maybe if people could let go of their fear and need for control, the world would be a better place. Those people who are extremely anti-gay, I've always wondered what you are so afraid of? Maybe if you spent more time exploring your own fears and ignorances, the rest of the world wouldn't have to deal with all the nonsense.
December 10, 2008
1:14 PM
CT1975 writes:
Tom is right! The issue goes far past taxes. Have any of you even seen "If These Walls Could Talk"? It was a HBO or Showtime movie. Anyways there were two lesbians that lived together and one past away. The other was not able to keep the house, had no legal rights to their life together.
When my husband and I are old and gray I want to be secure in the fact that I can be by his bedside or him mine. Our house, cars, dogs, and money will be his or mine. It is these facts and issues that we as gay men and women are fighting for.
I am lucky I live in Massachusetts and my company allows him on health insurance. These are real issues. These are the main issues that are not brought up.
December 10, 2008
1:15 PM
Single Post Guy writes:
"Can you believe what the uproar would be if it was all Christians taking the day off?"
You mean "Monday without a Fundie?"
I can hardly imagine the rise of intelligence and productivity in the workplace.
December 10, 2008
1:19 PM
Ben-Exposer of left wing intolerance and hate writes:
"more ignorant drivel from the far religious right." jay
Well, you know I'm not the religious right. I'm just your average ordinary American who sees a minority agenda being pushed on other Americans.
Nice try though.
BTW tell us how special prviledges and consdierations are "equal rights"? Gays already the right of marriage. Just not as homosexuals. Kinda like how polygamists can't get married more than once.
December 10, 2008
1:20 PM
Tbone writes:
If you don't want TEH GAYS pushing their "agenda" down your throat, fine and good.
But maybe, just maybe, you should think about not trying to push your christianist agenda down their throat.
K, peeps?
December 10, 2008
1:24 PM
CT1975 writes:
Tom is right! It is not about taxes only. It is about being with your loved one in the hospital, keeping the house you lived in, being able to get access to bank accounts, health records, and the like. Things that hetreosexual couples do not have to worry about.
I am so glad I live in Massachusetts, but I will fight for my brothers and sisters anywhere.
The comment about the twinks and condoms-crude. I can remember times in the locker room at school and it was not a bunch of twinks, but straight guys talking about what they did with straight gals.
December 10, 2008
1:24 PM
Jeff writes:
Although I agree with what the bible states I feel it's wrong to corrupt the definition of marriage. Marriage is a traditional, well defined entity which is simply a life-long commitment between a Man and a Woman.
For all the previous posts about homophobes preventing gays from being with the one they love, there aren't any (non-biblical) laws preventing gays from being together and American society has bent over backwards to accomodate.
To all Gays: Please, enjoy your significant others company, spend the rest of your lives together, we encourage monogomous relationships. As we all live in this world together we want to get along, but please don't equate a gay relationship to marriage as there is no comparison.
As far as the day off, I would discourage it. The Illegals tried this earlier and government and industry both found they could use the information to their benefit.
December 10, 2008
1:30 PM
jan writes:
Naja and all gays,
Go ahead and be gay! We hope you are happy and all the other gay folks are happy, just dont stuff your lifestyle down our throat and especially dont stuff it down the throats of our children who happen to be a captive audience in a public school.
This is where the line needs to be drawn.
It is your business and choice to be homosexual, not mine. We should have the choice to accept or not accept the gay lifestyle just as you have a choice to accept or not accept to be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. what creates the rederic is the "in your face" politics of the gay community. Just live your lives and leave the rest of us alone.
In the end it will be about Christian bashing, not gay bashing.
Everyone mark my words: The gay lifestyle subject and the gay rights issue is all about persecuting Christians and Christianity. This is where this whole thing is heading. Again, mark my words!
December 10, 2008
1:31 PM
Rae writes:
Since most of the people posting biblical scripture here are using the New Testement as their 'anti-gay' sources, let me remind you that Paul wrote most of the anti-gay verses because of the world he belonged to. Paul lived in a world controlled by the Roman Empire, whom all considered corrupt, decadent, depraved, etc. Of cource he was going to write passages to them about not being gay, having one wife, not worshiping idols, not committing adultery, or committing many other 'sins'. Paul was writing to a world filled with mostly Romans, Gentiles, and Jews. Most of whom were corrupted by the Roman Empire...So, what the heck does the ancient nasty Roman Empire (of which the anti-gay passages in the NT were written too) have to do with Gay Rights?
Yes, they are under the qualification of civil rights. Gays are a minority group, and civil rights movements especially pertain to such groups.
Gays are not all affected by AIDS, in fact the worst affected area in the world is still sub-Saharan Africa. And christians do have a no-work day...one every week, in fact!
Let them live like the humans they are, and give them the rights that all humans deserve.
December 10, 2008
1:31 PM
Matt writes:
God, in certain times and cases has allowed polygamy. Never has he allowed homosexuality. It is considered sin. That's the bible. It may not be the best public policy, however.
December 10, 2008
1:32 PM
jay writes:
lol...sad that you have to hide your faith in order to try to sound more credible, benny.
pathetic actually.
so...any reason why gays shouldn't have equal rights, people?
any thoughts on how equal rights for blacks, women and gays are "special"?
remember, your beliefs in the supernatural are NEVER justification for bigotry.
December 10, 2008
1:36 PM
Brian in Evans writes:
Anthony1979 writes:
...please do! because MY Bible says in Leviticus 18 (v4) "You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God." (v22) "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." How you get "condone"d is beyond me...good luck lookin...it's sad that people twist up words in the Bible and verses to get them to mean what they want it to mean. I think these verses say pretty clearly where God stands on the subject.
Your Bible? REALLY? Well then while we're quoting Leviticus, YOUR BIBLE ALSO SAYS:
1). Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.
3). I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
I have a friend that owns a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting
two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends
to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble
of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
December 10, 2008
1:39 PM
Ben-Exposer of left wing intolerance and hate writes:
jay lol
"any thoughts on how equal rights for blacks, women and gays are "special"?
If I was a black person or a women I would be offended by that. Shame on you jay. Equating a person's gender or skin color with how a person sexually gratifies themself.
Oh btw, what is my "faith"?
To end: What is pathetic is watching you grasp at straws.
December 10, 2008
1:51 PM
I Only Click Once writes:
> we encourage monogomous relationships
"Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the United States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half of all marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states are roughly 50 percent above the national average."
December 10, 2008
1:52 PM
Brian Crandall writes:
Jan writes:
"Go ahead and be gay and I hope you are happy and all the other gay folks are happy as well (but you are not), just dont stuff your lifestyle down my throat and especially dont stuff it down the throats of my children"
ACTUALLY, It's the Christian extremists FORCING THEIR LIFESTYLE down everybody's throats.
It's the Christian Extremists always telling everybody else how to live their lives. (all the while raping boys left and right according to the news nearly every night)
December 10, 2008
1:56 PM
Chuckwagon writes:
In The Constitution of the United States of America, how many times does the word "god" appear? If you do not know...go read it and then have this discussion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," So please tell me how you can use your theology to dictate civil laws. You can't.
For the "Christians": To be christian you most have Christ like attributes. In the four books that teach about Jesus Christ (Matthew, Mark, Luke, And John) it does not mention homosexuality. Jesus wasn't concerned with it now was he. And there is also a verse in the bible John 8:7 "When they persisted in questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the person among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
And for Charles Johnson...I just want to get this right....so you were born gay but you are choosing to be straight? Just as I, who is gay, was born straight and am choosing to be gay. Well I'm glad I'm not going to hell....sorry Charlie.
December 10, 2008
1:57 PM
jay writes:
"If I was a black person or a women I would be offended by that. Shame on you jay. Equating a person's gender or skin color with how a person sexually gratifies themself."
here we see the most common source of confusion from the far right footsoldiers on this issue.
being born gay is no different than being born black.
willful ignorance isn't going to help your case here, benny.
December 10, 2008
1:59 PM
JMH writes:
Just call gay marriage a "civil union" and lets get over all this nonsense...
With a civil union, gay couples can get all the "equal rights and perks" that come with traditional marriage (seeing loved ones in the hospital, being able to file taxes together, etc.)... that seems to be all homosexual people are asking.
Would that make the bible thumpers and gay-haters happy? (Who I always suspect usually have "closeted" desires themselves. Personally I am secure enough in my manhood to not give one damn about what Harry does with Sal)?
These people can have the word "marriage" all to themselves and the religious connitations that go with it too... but the homosexual couples can still get the equal rights under law!
In short - a "marriage" has religious meaning and civil unions have a civil meaning, but both are equal under law!
But on a side note... conservatives need to accept the fact that they are only delaying the inevitable. As society becomes more diverse and accepting as the years go on, this whole anti-gay thing will someday be looked upon as the resistance to women voting or opposition to multi-racial marrage is looked upon today - nothing more than ignorant bigotry!
P.S.
To all the people out their that want to justify their opposition to equal rights for gays by basis of the Bible... just understand, that book of fairy tales means nothing to alot of us and it has no place being put into law due to the seperation of church and state in this country! That goes true for all the major religions and cults as well in this country. Enjoy your religion in peace, but don't try to thrust it on the rest of us... some of us are able to think for ourselves without ancient superstitions getting in the way of individual freedom!
December 10, 2008
2:02 PM
Amen writes:
Romans 13:1
13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
December 10, 2008
2:04 PM
Tbone writes:
"Everyone mark my words: The gay lifestyle subject and the gay rights subject is all about persecuting Christians and Christianity if you want to get right down to it. This is where this whole thing is heading. Again, mark my words."
Oh! Those persecuted christians! Those poor, poor, christians, who make up 80% of america's population. Those poor christians, who make up one of the worlds largest religions! Those poor christians, who hold 99.999% of elected gov't positions!
Why must wingnuts always play the victim card? Especially when they're the ones victimizing?
Ben - how are equal rights for blacks "special"? They didn't choose to be black, just as gays didn't choose to be gay. I mean, why would someone choose to belong to the most persecuted group of people in history?
December 10, 2008
2:13 PM
Ben-Exposer of left wing intolerance and hate writes:
"being born gay is no different than being born black." jay
How is choosing to be poked in the rearend equal to someone being born black? Ludicris! (Pun not intended)
I can now readily see how blacks in California made sure that Prop 8 failed. Yet, religious Christians, mostly white and conervative, get blamed. Your bigotry against Christians is showing people. Maybe you all should go down to south central L.A. and tell blacks how bigoted they are and were for voting YES banning homosexual marriage.
December 10, 2008
2:14 PM
Shaggy writes:
"being born gay is no different than being born black."---jay
You really do have a learning disability don't you jay!! Not a question...stating a fact.
One cannot control what color, sex, illnesses ect...they will be born with.
Yes, it has been argued that people are born gay but they can control who they have sex with.
It can be argued that one can be born a child molester but that doesn't mean they have a right to molest.
It can be argued that one can be born a murderer but that doesn't mean they have a right to commit murder.
If you know any black people, talk to them and try to compare their past fight for equal rights to gays wanting to marry and you will get an earful if not a mouth full why they are so appalled at this.
I wished Mark would change this blog to allow us to actually draw you pictures to help you understand better.
We need a handicap version for some of you.
December 10, 2008
2:19 PM
kdawg writes:
A few subjects addressed:
The Bible definitely does not condone gay marriage, and anyone who reads it or seeks the truth will find that out.
But Christians their Bible, and Mormons, (who are not Christians, btw)...are NOT solely responsible for the outcome of Prop 8, nor are they the only ones fighting it.
In regards to the shellfish comment - i suggest you consider a Bible commentary on those things which sound so absurd to you; or maybe even ask a pastor about what is meant by those things. No matter what you are accustomed to - in all cultures, all religions, we need to make note of the historical, cultural, and figurative CONTEXT.
Commentaries will show you what the writers of Scripture / God-inspired Word meant when it talks about things we don’t understand and find absurd.
Obviously, God does not consider eating shellfish a sin...or anything of the liking, whether you were serious or joking about that.
I am Christian. The evangelical, protestant or non-denominational Christians I know love gay people. It shouldn’t matter what your denomination is – all Christians are called to love gay people as any other person deserves to be loved. They are people who have the freedom to fight for what they believe in. We as Christians, also have freedom to vote and express what we have reason to believe in as well.
We may clash on gay marriage with others no matter what they’re religious affiliation or personal preference is - not because we hate, but because we have logical reason to believe it is not in accordance with what God intends to be best for his humanity as a whole. But we are all free to represent whatever it is we believe, and if that means gay people protesting, then by all means, let them!
God does not hate gays - He loves them. Anyone that calls themselves Christian and says otherwise, or shows hostility toward people who are gay - is not a CHRIST-ian. Or maybe they desire to be Christian but are far, far short of truly walking in the spirit. Maybe some Christians have serious too, but that does NOT justify hostility toward anyone.
Let gay people vote and protest however they want, they have that freedom – and if the law permits it, then let them even get married. But it is not up to us decide the final outcome, God does. We are not to judge, God already does. But Christians still have the right to stand for moral truth...they can still have the right to vote yes on 8.
It IS possible to stand for moral truth and not judge others. It’s not hating people, it’s hating the sin. If we don't fight for what we believe in than we in our sense of duty, are not standing for the God of the Bible; Just as gay people have the freedom to fight for what they believe in based on whoever they call god or whoever they don’t call god. There are so many double standards on both ends. There are some gay people who seek to know the God of the Bible and still struggle with being gay. God understands that and wants help for them. But he doesn’t justify the act of being gay despite the forces that pull them toward it.
If one day gay marriage is legal because of the popular vote, then I won't be the one blocking their alter. But I would have done everything in my voting power to protect the institution. Let the people who call themselves gay marry then – just as we have the freedom to sin by stealing, lying, etc. There are measures that try to protect that from happening, but the final outcome may just be left open for us to partake in. The rest is up to God himself to judge. God will determine whether or not he will bless that marriage, and based on Biblical content, He won’t.
For the people who give up on organized religion: Seek truth first - not errant human example of how we should live, even if they call themselves a Christian. Often times the truth is not what we want to hear! That doesn’t mean its not the Truth. Moral relativism is a contradiction.
Of course there's hypocrites in every church. There’s hypocrites everywhere, even non-Christians are hypcorites in their daily lives contradicting the words that come out of their mouths! Actually, we're all at some point a hypocrite. How is it in our nature to not be?
There are sorry excuses for Christian churches and people, but there are plenty more genuinely awesome, Christ-centered ones who strive every day to NOT be a hypocrite. You can reject people, but don't let people lead you to reject Truth in Christ. If you do find that truth in Christ, he calls us to uphold and edify one another in a sense of community, making some kind of "organized religion" important. If people in a corporation are going to be errant and make mistakes and disagree on things, does that mean we should abandon all organized corporate functions because they’re corrupt?
There are terrible mistakes and sins that even leaders in organized religion have made - in personal lives, theological doctrine, etc. That's why we are to seek the truth despite humanity’s pathetic attempts. But there is also an overwhelming majority of sincerely dedicated people who seek to honor, worship, and follow Christ who are in the church and lead congregations.
We are warned about false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing, like some corny weird televangelists out there, the Benny Hinns, etc; but God gives you discernment and wisdom when you ask Him.
Then there's Christians like J.P. Moreland, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacariah, Mike Erie, Dallas Willard, Mother Teresa, Chuck Swindoll, Chuck Colson, Billy Graham, Michael W. Smith, Steven Curtis Chapman, etc. etc. etc. God will obviously give us people like that who lead us in Truth. God wouldn't lie to us if he wants us to follow Him...
In regards to gays - acting on homosexuality and deliberately seeking to indulge in it is a sin according to the Bible. Having those feelings and struggling with it isn't necessarily sinning, because God understands that to fight our earthly desires is hard and we have them as a consequence of the fall. Just as having sex before marriage is a sin when straight people do it. Hence, stats say some 70 percent of people who do fornicate get divorced. God's natural laws and consequences will carry out no matter what we do.
He gives us the means and good reason to resist these temptations, however, and provides a better way with rewards that are far more worth it. If you can prove that there is a God, which we can – (even agnostic historians can prove that,) as well as the fact that Christ resurrected, then you can prove Christ was God. There is much cosmological, teleolgoical, ontological, artifactual, historical, etc. evidence that points to all of that. There's proof that the Bible is the Word of God. An easy popular read on this is Lee Stroble - a Case for Creation, A Case for Faith, and a Case for Christ, out of the millions out there).
But believe what you will, seek what you will - we have that God given freedom. I’m not forcing anything on anyone, simply expressing what I have the right to express. What we vote - well, that's up to God to judge. Which votes determine the outcome – that’s also a freedom God gives us to carry out in the law. God help us all. Gay people and straight - because we all are equally human and equally loved in God's eyes.
December 10, 2008
2:32 PM
kdawg writes:
A few subjects addressed:
The Bible definitely does not condone gay marriage, and anyone who reads it or seeks the truth will find that out.
But Christians their Bible, and Mormons, (who are not Christians, btw)...are NOT solely responsible for the outcome of Prop 8, nor are they the only ones fighting it.
In regards to the shellfish comment - i suggest you consider a Bible commentary on those things which sound so absurd to you; or maybe even ask a pastor about what is meant by those things. No matter what you are accustomed to - in all cultures, all religions, we need to make note of the historical, cultural, and figurative CONTEXT.
Commentaries will show you what the writers of Scripture / God-inspired Word meant when it talks about things we don’t understand and find absurd.
Obviously, God does not consider eating shellfish a sin...or anything of the liking, whether you were serious or joking about that.
I am Christian. The evangelical, protestant or non-denominational Christians I know love gay people. It shouldn’t matter what your denomination is – all Christians are called to love gay people as any other person deserves to be loved. They are people who have the freedom to fight for what they believe in. We as Christians, also have freedom to vote and express what we have reason to believe in as well.
We may clash on gay marriage with others no matter what they’re religious affiliation or personal preference is - not because we hate, but because we have logical reason to believe it is not in accordance with what God intends to be best for his humanity as a whole. But we are all free to represent whatever it is we believe, and if that means gay people protesting, then by all means, let them!
God does not hate gays - He loves them. Anyone that calls themselves Christian and says otherwise, or shows hostility toward people who are gay - is not a CHRIST-ian. Or maybe they desire to be Christian but are far, far short of truly walking in the spirit. Maybe some Christians have serious too, but that does NOT justify hostility toward anyone.
Let gay people vote and protest however they want, they have that freedom – and if the law permits it, then let them even get married. But it is not up to us decide the final outcome, God does. We are not to judge, God already does. But Christians still have the right to stand for moral truth...they can still have the right to vote yes on 8.
It IS possible to stand for moral truth and not judge others. It’s not hating people, it’s hating the sin. If we don't fight for what we believe in than we in our sense of duty, are not standing for the God of the Bible; Just as gay people have the freedom to fight for what they believe in based on whoever they call god or whoever they don’t call god. There are so many double standards on both ends. There are some gay people who seek to know the God of the Bible and still struggle with being gay. God understands that and wants help for them. But he doesn’t justify the act of being gay despite the forces that pull them toward it.
If one day gay marriage is legal because of the popular vote, then I won't be the one blocking their alter. But I would have done everything in my voting power to protect the institution. Let the people who call themselves gay marry then – just as we have the freedom to sin by stealing, lying, etc. There are measures that try to protect that from happening, but the final outcome may just be left open for us to partake in. The rest is up to God himself to judge. God will determine whether or not he will bless that marriage, and based on Biblical content, He won’t.
For the people who give up on organized religion: Seek truth first - not errant human example of how we should live, even if they call themselves a Christian. Often times the truth is not what we want to hear! That doesn’t mean its not the Truth. Moral relativism is a contradiction.
Of course there's hypocrites in every church. There’s hypocrites everywhere, even non-Christians are hypcorites in their daily lives contradicting the words that come out of their mouths! Actually, we're all at some point a hypocrite. How is it in our nature to not be?
There are sorry excuses for Christian churches and people, but there are plenty more genuinely awesome, Christ-centered ones who strive every day to NOT be a hypocrite. You can reject people, but don't let people lead you to reject Truth in Christ. If you do find that truth in Christ, he calls us to uphold and edify one another in a sense of community, making some kind of "organized religion" important. If people in a corporation are going to be errant and make mistakes and disagree on things, does that mean we should abandon all organized corporate functions because they’re corrupt?
There are terrible mistakes and sins that even leaders in organized religion have made - in personal lives, theological doctrine, etc. That's why we are to seek the truth despite humanity’s pathetic attempts. But there is also an overwhelming majority of sincerely dedicated people who seek to honor, worship, and follow Christ who are in the church and lead congregations.
We are warned about false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing, like some corny weird televangelists out there, the Benny Hinns, etc; but God gives you discernment and wisdom when you ask Him.
Then there's Christians like J.P. Moreland, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacariah, Mike Erie, Dallas Willard, Mother Teresa, Chuck Swindoll, Chuck Colson, Billy Graham, Michael W. Smith, Steven Curtis Chapman, etc. etc. etc. God will obviously give us people like that who lead us in Truth. God wouldn't lie to us if he wants us to follow Him...
In regards to gays - acting on homosexuality and deliberately seeking to indulge in it is a sin according to the Bible. Having those feelings and struggling with it isn't necessarily sinning, because God understands that to fight our earthly desires is hard and we have them as a consequence of the fall. Just as having sex before marriage is a sin when straight people do it. Hence, stats say some 70 percent of people who do fornicate get divorced. God's natural laws and consequences will carry out no matter what we do.
He gives us the means and good reason to resist these temptations, however, and provides a better way with rewards that are far more worth it. If you can prove that there is a God, which we can – (even agnostic historians can prove that,) as well as the fact that Christ resurrected, then you can prove Christ was God. There is much cosmological, teleolgoical, ontological, artifactual, historical, etc. evidence that points to all of that. There's proof that the Bible is the Word of God. An easy popular read on this is Lee Stroble - a Case for Creation, A Case for Faith, and a Case for Christ, out of the millions out there).
But believe what you will, seek what you will - we have that God given freedom. I’m not forcing anything on anyone, simply expressing what I have the right to express. What we vote - well, that's up to God to judge. Which votes determine the outcome – that’s also a freedom God gives us to carry out in the law. God help us all. Gay people and straight - because we all are equally human and equally loved in God's eyes.
December 10, 2008
2:33 PM
Tbone writes:
How exactly is the struggle for women and blacks to obtain equal rights different than gay's struggle for equal rights?
Please enlighten us, shaggy and ben.
You guys keep wanting to bring sex into this issue (projection, perhaps?). It seems your basic argument is "ug, gross, lets deny them some rights".
December 10, 2008
2:41 PM
Ben writes:
Tbone, "How exactly is the struggle for women and blacks to obtain equal rights different than gay's struggle for equal rights?"
Well, why don't you go on the NAACP website and ask them. You won't listen to us here.
December 10, 2008
2:48 PM
Ben writes:
Tbone, "How exactly is the struggle for women and blacks to obtain equal rights different than gay's struggle for equal rights?"
Well, why don't you go on the NAACP website and ask them. You won't listen to us here.
December 10, 2008
2:49 PM
Shaggy writes:
RumpRoast,
Please refer to my last post for clarity and let me know what part you are still having problems with.
Serious, that drawing pictures idea of mine would really be a very helpful tool!
December 10, 2008
3:02 PM
Tbone writes:
That's what I thought. Neither of you could answer the question.
So basically, we're back to:
1. my religion says TEH GAY is bad, so that makes it ok to discriminate
2. gays are gross, so that makes it ok to discriminate.
And last I checked shaggy, gays aren't exactly asking for the right to murder and molest. They're asking to be treated the same as everyone else.
And thanks for the tip, ben, I did check the NAACP website. You want to know what I found?
"The NAACP is excited and proud to be part of a groundbreaking new broadcast and social experiment aimed at helping Americans overcome issues of social prejudice in all its forms."
So how exactly is the struggle for gays to be treated equally different?
December 10, 2008
3:09 PM
jay writes:
wow...we see shaggy and benny once again resorting to willful ignorance when cornered on yet another issue.
December 10, 2008
3:10 PM
doesn't matter writes:
Look, about gay's being born that way or not....
The bible says that all different sins come from iniquity... that the seed of sin that grows throughout the generations (generational curses if you will)
So! Yes I believe that people are born gay...however, the bible says that its an abomination, it shouldn't be acted upon.
Jesus teaches us to love eachother not hate.... We as Christians lose sight of that... I'm ashamed!
Our main purpose as Christians is to teach others about Gods love, not to judge... God will do that!
We have to be careful calling ourselves Christians and then acting like a bunch of bigots.
December 10, 2008
3:24 PM
JMH writes:
I see Ben and shaggy are doing their narrow minded, willful ignorance act again...
Gay people are born gay! Period. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't make it any less a fact. Do you guys know any gay people? I bet you don't, not on a personal level anyway... But if you do, ask them!
I have a younger cousin that is gay we all knew it before he did! The signs were there at a young age and never went away. No one was suprised when he "came out".
This has got to be one of the dumber things I have seen shaggy post (and we all know he has had some whoppers!) - "Yes, it has been argued that people are born gay but they can control who they have sex with."
OK shaggy, we are all gonna pass a law saying you can't have sex with women anymore. It is now a law, let's see how much you like it! Pretty safe to say you aren't going to care and suddenly start having sex with men... People can't control there sexual orientation just like they can't control their color, etc.
There isn't one man I have ever known that was born straight and CHOSE to have sex with men! It doesn't happen. I dare you to name me one... and really confused, repressed, self- hating Jesus nuts like Mr. Haggard don't count. Though I bet he was born gay and has lived a lie all these years due to the religious beliefs he was raised with!
Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of time. Alexander the Great comes to mind... accept it!
I worked with a gay guy once (really nice guy) and had many conversations with him about this very subject. I asked him if this was a choice. His reply? - "Ya, like I would pick to be hated by people I don't even know and I surely wouldn't pick to be disowned by my own family. But I am what I am!"
Oh... and "Doesn't Matter"... shove your book of ancient fairy tales where the sun don't shine.
December 10, 2008
3:26 PM
Anonymous writes:
Philosophical question?
Why did god create gays if this is supposed to be sin?
and why are they all republican?
December 10, 2008
3:32 PM
no name writes:
WOW!!!!! You are some bored A** people! Imagine how much you could get done if you put all this energy to something that actually matter. I think I lost brain cells reading this nonsense.
December 10, 2008
3:37 PM
Shaggy writes:
rumproast,
Can you show me anywhere I or Ben said anything remotely to this comment by you?
"1. my religion says TEH GAY is bad, so that makes it ok to discriminate
2. gays are gross, so that makes it ok to discriminate."
Let me ask you something.
Jay you can answer this too.
Do you think a man having sex with another man or a woman having sex with another woman is perverted behavior or normal, natural behavior?
December 10, 2008
3:45 PM
Ah got your scripture right here writes:
"and Mormons, (who are not Christians, btw)"
There's that special tolerance we know and love. Oddly enough, Mormons worship Christ and claim themselves Christians. And yet you take it on yourself to pronounce them not, and many other evangelicals feel the same of Catholics, and some Catholics feel the same about you, and the French hate the Germans, and the Germans hate the Dutch, and the Dutch don't like anyone very much...
And you wonder why so many of us think you ALL nut-jobs and don't care one iota what you and your oh-so-certain, invincible and ONE TRUE correct interpretation of a collection of ancient stories handed down and changed over millennia is?
But anyway, I guess it was big of you to set aside your contempt for Mormons so you could all indulge in your mutual hatred of gays for a little while.
Peace out.
December 10, 2008
3:46 PM
gr8fuldude writes:
And to think I thought I was missing some intelligent exchange by doing my Christmas shopping today...
December 10, 2008
3:48 PM
history buff writes:
Doesn't Matter
Good post and a good starting point for debate among believers. I'm reading the Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant, and he says the Civil War was God's judgment on the United States for fighting a war with Mexico to spread slavery into Texas.
But, many Christians from the time of the Enlightenment believe that God granted us free will and freedom of conscience, and we are not beholden to iniquity, which sounds like predestination. Our idea of liberty that is so much a part of the Constitution is derived from the free will philosophy. And, many consider liberty to be a dynamic idea, not static. Meaning that we are free to interpret what liberty means in our lives. It is not confined to what it meant to our forefathers.
That being said, gay marriage does seem queer.
December 10, 2008
3:51 PM
gr8fuldude writes:
And to think I thought I was missing some intelligent exchange by doing my Christmas shopping today...
December 10, 2008
4:10 PM
Ben- exposer of "liberal" hypocrisy writes:
T-bone,
This is task I pose to you. Call up the national headquarters of the NAACP and ask them what they think about homosexuals using the civil rights struggles of blacks to promote their agenda. (Hell call up the Black Panthers on that too.)
Again, if I was black I would be offended with this comparision. If you check blacks voting % on Prop 8 in California (7 out of 10 voted yes to ban homosexual marriage), apparently they were.
JMH, you are the ignorant one. Your assumptions about particular positions for one. I also feel homosexuals are born. I also feel many heterosexuals have an innate inclination to be disgusted by homosexuality. They have since the dawn of man apparently. I can't help it, that's how I am genetically wired.
I will reiterate. It isn't about "equal rights" (already exists) or love. It is about the promotion and advancement of the gay agenda and power. I cannot be pigeonholed as a "religious fundamentalist". There is a diverse spectrum of Americans from a plethora of interest groups that oppose homosexuals marrying. It simply isn't acceptable to them and rightly so.
Marriage is for building families.
Families are for building nations.
Homosexuality is for what now?
December 10, 2008
4:16 PM
Shaggy writes:
Yea right Dude, We all know why you stayed away from work today..wink wink...:)
December 10, 2008
4:26 PM
jay writes:
benny if gays already have "equal rights" under the law, what is all the fighting about equal rights for gays about?
wait a minute...we had this same conversation a month ago and you've apparently shaken the etchisketch again.
sounds like we're going to have to save this to the old favorites folder so we can reference this conversation again like the one we do about illegal immigration, no?
December 10, 2008
5:14 PM
Joe Q. writes:
The issue has never been gays wanting equal rights.
It has repeatedly been the desire of gays to have their behavior NORMALIZED.
Society does not recognize deviant sexual behavior as normal, so the point is moot.
And the hysteria goes on......
December 10, 2008
5:29 PM
buh-buh-buh benny and the jets writes:
jay,
"benny if gays already have "equal rights" under the law, what is all the fighting about equal rights for gays about?"
Do you suffer from short term memory loss? Or are you being obstinately willfully ignorant?
I do see a sliver learning from you. You typed "illegal immigration". There may be hope for you yet.
December 10, 2008
8:12 PM
LetsThink writes:
There were some very thoughtful and substantive posts made to this important topic.
But there were some that were seriously and blatantly in error (especially, those attacking God or the Bible).
So our primary challenge is to learn how to discern truth from untruth.
December 10, 2008
8:17 PM
allan W writes:
After God created man He saw that it was not good that man be alone. Then God created woman to be companion to man. God did not creat another man to be the companion of man. If homosexuals are gay why don't they just be gay together and stop trying to force everyone else to accept them as norma. If they were normal everyone would just naturally accept them.
Homosexuals should encourage more hetrosexual marriages so procreation can occure. Homosexuals don't reproduce nor produce. Like leaches they recruit from and feed on the offsprings of hetrosexuals.
December 10, 2008
10:18 PM
Ultimate Guru writes:
I don't have a problem with gays getting married, but I do have a problem with gays adopting. Just stick to what's tried and true. Studies have shown that families operate better when there is a man in the house. Similarly for women. What about two guys raising two young, adopted girls. Sound wrong to you? There's just so much more potential for abuse and pedophilia. (just so you know, I would say the same thing about a straight man raising adopted children. When there is no biological connection, there should be two parents, male and female.)
Here's my solution: Take away government privileges from straight married couples with no children. Then gays and straights will have the same rights. However, keep the government privileges for straight married couples with biological or adopted children. After all, that's what the privileges for married couples are all about, right?
December 11, 2008
7:14 AM
bropous writes:
I am not a Christian, but I do not have the unreasoned bigotry against Christians that many who do not share their faith wrap themselves in.
However, growing up a Christian, I can tell you for a fact that if you read the bible and come away with the opinion that it is either neutral on the subject of homosexual marriage, or would promote it, you have reading comprehension challenges.
I am a traditionalist. Marriage is strictly meant for a man, and a woman. Period. It has been so for the 10,000+ years of our history.
ANY adult citizens have the right to form relationships, agree to contracts, or set up households, and there are already provisions in our laws that achieve what those who want to redefine marriage are aiming for.
What is absolutely disgusting is the all-out assault on folks in California who voted to add the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman only. This did not "take away rights" from ANYONE, because those "rights" never existed.
There is nothing wrong with people wanting a relationship with someone else of the same sex, hey, if they are adults, it is THEIR business. However, to then turn around and attempt to force the redefinition of one of the cornerstones of human culture is ridiculous.
December 11, 2008
7:39 AM
Ben writes:
Bropous, My sentiments exactly.
December 11, 2008
8:51 AM
Tbone writes:
"Do you think a man having sex with another man or a woman having sex with another woman is perverted behavior or normal, natural behavior?"
Shaggy-
Who cares? Why do you insist on sticking your nose into other peoples behavior? Who cares who people have sex with? Once again, you're back to the TEH GAYS are gross argument.
Let me rephrase the question.
shaggy & ben - you two claim to care about the constitution. Can you show me where it says its ok to discriminate against certain groups of people? Thanks.
And ben - once again. I did check the NAACP website, where they proclaim that they fight against any kind of discrimination.
You saying "If I were black, I'd be mad!" is pointless, since you're not black.
December 11, 2008
9:07 AM
JW writes:
Oy. The ignorance is ASTOUNDING.
"I am a traditionalist. Marriage is strictly meant for a man, and a woman. Period. It has been so for the 10,000+ years of our history."
First off, the definition of marrage you are talking about HAS NOT BEEN SO FOR 10,000 YEARS. Many woman and one man is EVERYWHERE throughout history (its in the BIBLE for fux sake). Lesser known is one woman and many men.
Secondly, if you are a "traditionalist", YEA FOR YOU! Have a traditional marriage!!! And keep your nose out of other peoples business while youre at it.
"ANY adult citizens have the right to form relationships, agree to contracts, or set up households, and there are already provisions in our laws that achieve what those who want to redefine marriage are aiming for."
No. Youre wrong. The federal government does not recognize same sex marriage. They do not pay out SS benefits to ANY same sex couples when one of them dies. There are NO contracts that can accomplish this.
I dont see why you people freak out about this. Your marriage isnt affected. As for the "sanctitiy" of marriage, where were you f*#kwits when Brittany Spears got married, then divorced a day later? You didnt have a problem with that.
Your problem is with gays. If your actual issue was "sanctity" of marriage, you would be equally concerned with the divorce rate, with things like pre-numps, people getting married for a joke like Brittany...
BUT, you arent concerned with that AT ALL. Youre concerned with GAYS, thats it.
December 11, 2008
9:08 AM
Tbone writes:
Another question:
Would you guys be OK with granting civil unions the exact same benefits (taxes, visiting, etc) as marriage?
And don't give me this "marriage is sacred" argument. If it's so d@mn sacred, 50% of them wouldn't end in divorce.
December 11, 2008
9:55 AM
JMH writes:
"I also feel homosexuals are born. I also feel many heterosexuals have an innate inclination to be disgusted by homosexuality. They have since the dawn of man apparently. I can't help it, that's how I am genetically wired." - Ben
Of course many hetrosexuals have an innate inclination to be disgusted by homosexuality - they are Heterosexuals! Pretty safe to say the Homos are pretty disgusted by heterosexual sex too... but who cares? What disgustes you and what should be illegal aren't the same thing. Basically the debate about porn centered around the same thing a few decades ago.
Since you also state that homosexuals are born (finally something we can agree on... not there there is any doubt exect with the ones who dislike reality when he goes against their beliefs) they you must assume that it is normal and they are God's creatures as well... thus under our constitution they are endowed with certain inalieable rights. Period. Class dismissed!
December 11, 2008
10:09 AM
James writes:
Leviticus 20:13
December 11, 2008
10:19 AM
Shaggy writes:
rumproast writes:
"Why do you insist on sticking your nose into other peoples behavior?"
I don't idiot, they are the ones trying to shove it in my face and forcing me to except their behavior and reward them for being perverts.
I could care less what they do behind closed doors.
You guys don't want religion shoved in your face right?
Glad to see JW is back from taking the day off yesterday.
December 11, 2008
10:24 AM
Shaggy writes:
rumproast writes:
"Can you show me where it says its ok to discriminate against certain groups of people?"
Is it O.K. to discriminate against people of faith?
Hypocritical idiots!
December 11, 2008
10:25 AM
bropous writes:
JW, are you EVER able to express yourself without vulgarities? Probably not, you don't strike me as particularly intellectually adept.
However, you BET I do NOT want gay marriage to go through. Period. And, clutch the pearls, I don't really care whether some heterosexual folks haven't had marriages work out. Yes, I am more incensed about the attempts to redefine marriage than I am about the divorce rates.
You and I do not share the same values, and people like me are in the majority in this nation. In all places to make homosexual marriage unconstitutional, California? Tells us all that the majority of voters chose to say "NO" to the re-write of human history.
You claim that man-female marriage has not been the norm for our 10,000 year history? You are lying if you assert differently. Homosexuality has NOT been accepted as part of the norm except in the past 30 years or so, and even then only by certain segments of society. For most of our shared history, homosexual relationships have been aberrant behavior.
You then try and claim that the Constitution somehow imbues homosexuals with the right to marry. Gee, must be another "penumbra of law" that you folks love to fabricate out of whole cloth. Read it again and show me ONE part that advocates homosexual marriage.
Folks like you just can't accept the "live and let live but don't force your minority opinion down the throats of the majority" attitude that most folks have when it comes to homosexuality. Most folks don't give two flips WHO you have sex with, but the simple fact is that heterosexuality is the NORM in human culture, the procreation of our species depends upon that, and the institution of marriage is encouraged by governments as a furtherance of that goal, propigation of the species.
Marriage is for a man and a woman. That's it.
I don't give two units of rat's flatus HOW you get your rocks off, as long as it's between consenting adults and out of sight of children, go fot it. Just quit trying to redefine marriage in an attempt to force the rest of the world to acknowledge your sexual proclivities.
December 11, 2008
10:26 AM
Shaggy writes:
rumproast writes:
"Can you show me where it says its ok to discriminate against certain groups of people?"
Is it O.K. to discriminate against people of faith?
Hypocritical idiots!
December 11, 2008
10:50 AM
bropous writes:
Oh, and if you need to refer to Newsweek for a determination of whether the Bible takes a position on homosexual marriage, you are in the midst of a SEVERE ontological crisis.
Newsweek can't even be relied upon to faithfully report the color of orange juice, let alone make a determination of whether the Bible is "hostile to" gay marriage. You know why the Bible does not mention homosexual marriage? I'll tell you why, because the people who put words to paper would have looked at you like you had four heads if you had told them that someone needed to state in its pages whether two men or two women marrying would be viewed favoarbly by their deity.
And, let's look at this aspect: You know what the Muslims do to homosexuals, right? Death. So why are you people not up in arms that a non-native US citizen Muslim stole the US election? I know, to you people, the most evil thing on Earth is a philosophy that says to Love Your Neighbor and preaches forgiveness, but let's see you take a stab at consistency and lay into the Muslims and the Quran as well.
However, we're supposed to worry about "rebooting our image" with the Muslims.
Liberal, thy name is hypocrite.
December 11, 2008
11:01 AM
Ben writes:
"they are God's creatures as well... thus under our constitution they are endowed with certain inalieable rights. Period. Class dismissed!" JMH
Uh, no class is not dismissed, and you are right, homosexuals are endowed(why did you use this descriptor?) with certain inalienable rights. Just like everyone else. They want special privilidges. Now class is dismissed.
December 11, 2008
11:33 AM
Big_D writes:
This is the best I have heard on this:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8/prop-8-the-musical-starring-jack-black-john-c-reilly-and-many-more-from-fod-team-jack-black-craig-robinson-john-c-reilly-and-rashida-jones
December 11, 2008
12:41 PM
Tbone writes:
shaggy-
How am I discriminating against people of faith?
Am I trying to pass laws so christians can't get married?
No. So your comparison as such is ridiculous.
Shaggy, how exactly do gays "shove it in my face and forcing me to except their behavior and reward them for being perverts"?
Arguing to be treated the same is not "shoving it in your face", shaggy. Period. End of story. And now you're saying being treated equally is a reward? According to the constitution, everyone should be treated equally, no matter what. Why do you hate the constitution?
When blacks were campaiging for equal rights, were they shoving their blackness in your face, shaggy? How about women obtaining the right to vote? Were they shoving their vajajays in your face?
Maybe if you didn't always try to feel victimized, you wouldn't think they were shoving it in your face.
December 11, 2008
1:01 PM
Anonymous writes:
T-bone, come out of the closet already you flamer.
December 11, 2008
1:20 PM
Obama 08 writes:
Naja writes:
"I've read most of the messages on this page and one thing is clear. Americans still use religion as a way of controlling the masses."
Interesting -- exactly HOW does encouraging people who have beliefs and values similar to your own amount to "controlling the masses"?
Exactly HOW is it different from all the Democrats voting as a block to enact their own agenda?
Answer -- it's not. But, since it's in conflict with your own narrow-minded, wrong-headed views, you claim that the Christians are trying to "control the masses".
Get real. Grow a brain.
December 11, 2008
1:30 PM
Anonymous writes:
Naja is thinking with the little nub and not the big one.
December 11, 2008
1:31 PM
Shaggy writes:
"How am I discriminating against people of faith?"
People on the left are always screaming about people of faith forcing their religion on them.
This is nothing new, I am surprised you even asked.
Look what they did to Sarah Palin.
"Arguing to be treated the same is not "shoving it in your face""
Just like the illegals, they are not arguing, they are DEMANDING rights that do not apply to them.
Taking a day of to demonstrate is shoving it our faces regardless at the expense of their employees.
"mar⋅riage
/ˈmærɪdʒ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mar-ij] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage."
"According to the constitution, everyone should be treated equally, no matter what."
Couldn't agree more with you, however, being treated equally is not the same as having rights and following Laws.
IE: a child does not have the right to drink alcohol or drive a car.
A man does not have the right to use a womans bathroom..ect.
"Why do you hate the constitution?"
Please, I have been fighting to protect the integrity the Constitution and make sure Barry meets it's qualifications for how long now?
Do you still not understand the difference between gay rights and black rights after all the posts by Ben and myself?
December 11, 2008
2:12 PM
BTW writes:
Ben-Exposer of left wing intolerance and hate said
"BTW tell us how special prviledges and consdierations are "equal rights"? Gays already the right of marriage. Just not as homosexuals."
By your (lack of) logic, the converse would also be true - heterosexuals would have the same right and be allowed to marry the same sex - so it isn't a special privilege or consideration whatsoever.
Poof - your objection just evaporated in the puff of smoke that it is.
December 11, 2008
2:25 PM
Ben-Season's Beatings writes:
BTW,
Heterosexuales don't want to marry the same sex. That's why they are heterosexuals not homosexuals.
So by your (lack of)logic, if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle.
Poof- your little cleverness just went up in the puff of smoke it is.
Now answer this question:
Marriage is for building families.
Families for building nations.
Homosexuality is for what now?
December 11, 2008
2:27 PM
The Force writes:
It's sad. Here in Colorado we have little Johnny Bible Thumper who is taught from day one that you must believe in the Bible as the word of God and that God is against gays and taxes and abortion rights and democrats and for rich people and Christians.
Over in Afghanistan or Palestine or Iran, little Omar Koran Thumper is taught that you must believe in the Koran as the word of God and that God is against America, Christians, Jews, Israel, educating women, etc.
Little wonder that the world, and even our own country, is perpetually at war.
Let's hope we learn to think for ourselves instead of swallowing anything and everything we're told like so many sheep. I thought America was a country of rugged individualists!?!
The truth lies within, not in some book written by mere mortal men hundreds of years after its main protagonist died. Wake up, people!
December 11, 2008
2:35 PM
Obama 08 writes:
The Force write: "Wake up people"
Well, right back at you, Force. Wake up.
In modern times, there has NEVER been a war fought for RELIGIOUS reasons. Oh, there are people who CLAIM to do do it for religion, but it's not. It's ALWAYS about POLITICS and POWER. They just use religion as an excuse.
Don't blaim the modern religions for wars. They're all yours, buddy.
December 11, 2008
2:42 PM
Obama 08 writes:
The Force write: "Wake up people"
Well, right back at you, Force. Wake up.
In modern times, there has NEVER been a war fought for RELIGIOUS reasons. Oh, there are people who CLAIM to do do it for religion, but it's not. It's ALWAYS about POLITICS and POWER. They just use religion as an excuse.
Don't blaim the modern religions for wars. They're all yours, buddy.
December 11, 2008
2:50 PM
Shaggy writes:
BTW writes:
"By your (lack of) logic, the converse would also be true - heterosexuals would have the same right and be allowed to marry the same sex"
Wouldn't this logic throw out the theory that gays are born that way?
December 11, 2008
2:50 PM
Anonymous writes:
The Force, As in forcing his illegitimate, radical, left wing bigotrous untruths on others.
December 11, 2008
2:58 PM
me2 writes:
Let me say something that I have never heard any where before.
Gays are very lucky in one regard: they know, because of the circumstances of their birth, that the Bible is a lie.
They know the truth about this religion, while the rest of us flounder around for years either believing in the whole Judea/Christian thing or trying to or just hoping it will go away.
They have the same kind of privileged spot as those early scientists who found out the Earth traveled around the sun, or that lightening was not the wrath of an upset God. They found out the truth about religion, while the rest of us can only believe or not believe.
For all the homosexuals who read these forums, remember that each election more and more people vote for your equal rights. When they do not, the states Courts usually always slap them down.
Your day of equality is coming, yes you can be equal and sooner than any of us think.
As for the bigots, we just have to outlive them.
December 11, 2008
2:58 PM
me2 writes:
Let me say something that I have never heard any where before.
Gays are very lucky in one regard: they know, because of the circumstances of their birth, that the Bible is a lie.
They know the truth about this religion, while the rest of us flounder around for years either believing in the whole Judea/Christian thing or trying to or just hoping it will go away.
They have the same kind of privileged spot as those early scientists who found out the Earth traveled around the sun, or that lightening was not the wrath of an upset God. They found out the truth about religion, while the rest of us can only believe or not believe.
For all the homosexuals who read these forums, remember that each election more and more people vote for your equal rights. When they do not, the states Courts usually always slap them down.
Your day of equality is coming, yes you can be equal and sooner than any of us think.
As for the bigots, we just have to outlive them.
December 11, 2008
2:59 PM
me2 writes:
Let me say something that I have never heard any where before.
Gays are very lucky in one regard: they know, because of the circumstances of their birth, that the Bible is a lie.
They know the truth about this religion, while the rest of us flounder around for years either believing in the whole Judea/Christian thing or trying to or just hoping it will go away.
They have the same kind of privileged spot as those early scientists who found out the Earth traveled around the sun, or that lightening was not the wrath of an upset God. They found out the truth about religion, while the rest of us can only believe or not believe.
For all the homosexuals who read these forums, remember that each election more and more people vote for your equal rights. When they do not, the states Courts usually always slap them down.
Your day of equality is coming, yes you can be equal and sooner than any of us think.
As for the bigots, we just have to outlive them.
December 11, 2008
3:02 PM
me2 writes:
Let me say something that I have never heard any where before.
Gays are very lucky in one regard: they know, because of the circumstances of their birth, that the Bible is a lie.
They know the truth about this religion, while the rest of us flounder around for years either believing in the whole Judea/Christian thing or trying to or just hoping it will go away.
They have the same kind of privileged spot as those early scientists who found out the Earth traveled around the sun, or that lightening was not the wrath of an upset God. They found out the truth about religion, while the rest of us can only believe or not believe.
For all the homosexuals who read these forums, remember that each election more and more people vote for your equal rights. When they do not, the states Courts usually always slap them down.
Your day of equality is coming, yes you can be equal and sooner than any of us think.
As for the bigots, we just have to outlive them.
December 11, 2008
3:10 PM
JMH writes:
Obama 08 just won the prize for dumbest quote today!
"In modern times, there has NEVER been a war fought for RELIGIOUS reasons."
I guess all that stuff going on in the Middle East, Sunni vs. Shia, Isreal vs. Palestine, USA's "War on Terror", India vs. Pakistan, etc etc. is all a figment of our imagination? Hell, the 9/11 attacks were done for religious reasons...
All realigion does is divide people and more people have died in the name of some fairy tale God than any other reason throughout history!
December 11, 2008
3:16 PM
Obama 08 writes:
me2
You seem to automatically equate "gay" with "non-Christian". I am a Christian, and I don't.
The gay lifestyle may indeed be compatible with Christianity. It may not be. I don't know ... it's not my call. It's God's. The gays could be very welcome in Heaven. Time will tell.
I don't know how anyone can look at the universe and believe - truly believe - that it was all an accident. I can believe that someone has had such a difficult life that they don't believe in a savior, and all the Bible says. But not to believe in an intelligent Creator? That takes more faith than I have.
December 11, 2008
3:23 PM
Obama 08 writes:
JMH -- oh, really?
And YOU are such an expert of the motives of terrorists because . . . ?
Talk about dumb!
You are simply so anti-Christian (and probably anti-Muslem, anti-Hindu, etc. etc.) that you want to blame everything on religious people.
Why not dump the blame on the economy on us, too, while you're at it?
Grow a brain -- and lose some of your bigotry.
December 11, 2008
3:48 PM
Tbone writes:
"People on the left are always screaming about people of faith forcing their religion on them.
This is nothing new, I am surprised you even asked. Look what they did to Sarah Palin."
C'mon Shaggy. Could you get any more dishonest.
The reason falin' palin was dissed was because she was an absolutely abysmal, unqualified, uninformed idiot.
"You then try and claim that the Constitution somehow imbues homosexuals with the right to marry. Gee, must be another "penumbra of law" that you folks love to fabricate out of whole cloth. Read it again and show me ONE part that advocates homosexual marriage."
bropous - Show me one part of the constitution that advocates torture. Or illegal wiretapping. Or discrimination. That was an idiotic argument.
December 11, 2008
4:00 PM
JMH writes:
"You are simply so anti-Christian (and probably anti-Muslem, anti-Hindu, etc. etc.) that you want to blame everything on religious people." - Obama 08
Yup... Don't really have anything against religious people per se, but I sure do have alot againt radical religious people... All radicals, I don't care what their cult is!
But it sure seems I hit a nerve with you!
As far as terrorists motives... well they usually say it! Osama bin Laden told us exactly what he was trying to do!
But go bad to your fairy tales, obviously you need to be led around and are incapable of thinking for yourself!
If there is a God, he is too big to fit into any of your man-made cults... that's for sure. I love the fact that all you religious wackos think the Bible is all knowing or some nonsense like that... It was written by men and has gone through various incarnations, political re-writtings and hundreds of different interpitations (by other men). But ya... Let's base our lives on ancient superstitions and 2,000 year old explainations from people who thought the Earth was flat.
It's nothing but a book of fairy tales for weak minded fools.
December 11, 2008
5:22 PM
Ben -Goes to church( Christian church) OMG! once a year. writes:
I like how the bigots against Christians always want to smear them on this issue, using terms like "bible thumper" etc. Know what? There are a lot of people who aren't devout Christians or even regular church going Christians who also don't believe in homosexual "marriage". A lot. Then look at all the other diverse groups that also don't believe the special priviledge and power grab attempts by gays and some liberals.
I know a few homosexuals. Fine people, but..
I say boycott gays and people who support gays. I'm sick of their collective aggressiveness.
December 11, 2008
5:40 PM
Both ways bob writes:
"I say boycott gays and people who support gays. I'm sick of their collective aggressiveness."
hmmm. what did you have in mind?
December 11, 2008
7:42 PM
NewsWatch writes:
Call in Gay Day was yesterday, and no one noticed.
So much for the clout that was so self-righteously proclaimed.
December 11, 2008
9:33 PM
BTW writes:
Ben-Season's Beatings said:
"Heterosexuales don't want to marry the same sex. That's why they are heterosexuals not homosexuals.
So by your (lack of)logic, if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle."
Wasn't (lack of) my logic, it was you who you said:
"Gays already the right of marriage. Just not as homosexuals."
Not I.
Again using your lack of logic it follows that Homosexual don't want to marry the opposite sex. That's why they are homosexuals not heterosexuals.
"Poof- your little cleverness just went up in the puff of smoke it is."
Nope, that's still you smoking
"Marriage is for building families.
Families for building nations.
Homosexuality is for what now?"
What are infertile couples for?
December 11, 2008
9:55 PM
BTW writes:
Shaggy said:
"BTW writes:
"By your (lack of) logic, the converse would also be true - heterosexuals would have the same right and be allowed to marry the same sex"
Wouldn't this logic throw out the theory that gays are born that way?"
Pay attention Shagster - it was Ben-nom-de-moment's lack of logic. Get it - the so-called logic is flawed so the obvious answer is:
No
Besides, you really need to explain how you made that connection anyway. Well, you don't really, we all know it's just Shaggy, that explains everything.
December 11, 2008
10:20 PM
Ben -aware of the gay agenda writes:
BTW,
btw
Then you also believe polygamy should not be banned right?
and
Infertile couples symbolized evolution's intent albeit defecient in the ability to procreate.
I will reiterate. It is not about love, it is not about equal rights deprevation. It is about the gay agenda and power.
December 12, 2008
7:43 AM
Anonymous writes:
What exactly is the gay agenda that Ben is so afraid of?
December 12, 2008
9:00 AM
BTW writes:
Ben-whats-his-name-now said:
"Then you also believe polygamy should not be banned right?"
For the purpose of our discussion, what I believe is irreleavant. I haven't said squat about what I believe, for all you know I may not support gay marriage.
The point I have been making is that you CLEARLY want to apply one line of "reasoning" for heterosexuals and a different line of "reasoning" for homosexuals, but NOT the same for both. Now why is that?
"Infertile couples symbolized evolution's intent albeit defecient in the ability to procreate."
You didn't answer my question - try again:
What are infertile couples for?
I don't think you will because it exposes your very sick line of thinking that homosexuals don't deserve the same rights as others because they are of no value to our government.
December 12, 2008
9:14 AM
Big_D writes:
Ben is probably conflicted over this way too much if you get my drift. I wonder if not all homosexuals are born homosexual. We have a lot of estrogen loaded into our water because of the use of birth control pills and our water treatment that is unable to remove it. Just a thought for you folks as you drink your stepped on water. I have also done some study and found that homosexuality goes up with population density. I am not sure why but it just does.
December 12, 2008
9:17 AM
Ben writes:
BTW,
1.No need for incorrect and misleading inferences and smears("sick line of thinking") just because you disagree with my opinion.
2.Oh, and I did answer your question.
3. Gays have the same rights. They want set aside priviledges.
4. Answer the polygamy question.
5. I will reiterate. It is not about love, it is not about equal rights deprevation. It is about the gay agenda and power.
December 12, 2008
10:06 AM
Tbone writes:
What exactly are the special privledges gays are demanding, Ben?
The way I see it, straights have special privledges through marriage.
December 12, 2008
10:17 AM
md writes:
The Old Testiment is where it is written that homosexual acts are the looked at the same as having sex with animals. So if you want people to be able to marry their dogs and sheep let gays marry one another. The fall of Rome is something We need to look at (the old saying those that don't heed history are domed to repeat it)
December 12, 2008
10:42 AM
BTW writes:
Ben -
"1.No need for incorrect and misleading inferences and smears("sick line of thinking") just because you disagree with my opinion."
Now you're trying to dodge what's becoming quite obvious. I questioned your faulty reasoning, not your opinion. Why won't you defend your reasoning - unless it's obvious that you can not.
If your line of thinking isn't sick, then tell us what infertile couples are for. You said
"Marriage is for building families.
Families for building nations"
but refuse to tell us why you ask "Homosexuality is for what now?" (how is that NOT saying they have no value?) but don't ask the same question of infertile couples. The reason why is rather obvious - you have a special set of reasoning that, as we have seen again, you CONSISTANTLY reserve only for homosexuals. If that ISN'T sick then tell us why you exhibit this disparity.
I'm not the one being misleading. It is you who are arguing that
- gays currently have the same rights to marry the opposite sex as heteros, therefore currently heteros don't have a special right.
- granting the right to marry the same sex does constitute a special right because heteros don't want to marry the same sex.
But you fail to touch on the fact that gays don't want to marry the opposite sex just as heteros don't want to marry the same sex. Your argument is self-contradicting - the only way to not see that is, again, to have a different set of thinking when it comes to gays.
If I am being misleading then address this simple point. How can heteros being able to marry the sex they don't want to constitute it being a special right yet the very same thing when applied to gays does not constitute a special right???? You haven't addressed this contradiction, just repeated that which is being challenged.
"Answer the polygamy question"
which was:
"Then you also believe polygamy should not be banned right?"
Which I addressed saying that my position is irrelevant. Explain to us what relevance my position on polygamy has to your contradictory claim that opposite sex is a right to both gays and heteros but same sex marriage is not even though the applicability is exactly the same.
December 12, 2008
10:48 AM
BTW writes:
Ben -
"1.No need for incorrect and misleading inferences and smears("sick line of thinking") just because you disagree with my opinion."
Now you're trying to dodge what's becoming quite obvious. I questioned your faulty reasoning, not your opinion. Why won't you defend your reasoning - unless it's obvious that you can not.
If your line of thinking isn't sick, then tell us what infertile couples are for. You said
"Marriage is for building families.
Families for building nations"
but refuse to tell us why you ask "Homosexuality is for what now?" (how is that NOT saying they have no value?) but don't ask the same question of infertile couples. The reason why is rather obvious - you have a special set of reasoning that, as we have seen again, you CONSISTANTLY reserve only for homosexuals. If that ISN'T sick then tell us why you exhibit this disparity.
I'm not the one being misleading. It is you who are arguing that
- gays currently have the same rights to marry the opposite sex as heteros, therefore currently heteros don't have a special right.
- granting the right to marry the same sex does constitute a special right because heteros don't want to marry the same sex.
But you fail to touch on the fact that gays don't want to marry the opposite sex just as heteros don't want to marry the same sex. Your argument is self-contradicting - the only way to not see that is, again, to have a different set of thinking when it comes to gays.
If I am being misleading then address this simple point. How can heteros being able to marry the sex they don't want to constitute it being a special right yet the very same thing when applied to gays does not constitute a special right???? You haven't addressed this contradiction, just repeated that which is being challenged.
"Answer the polygamy question"
which was:
"Then you also believe polygamy should not be banned right?"
Which I addressed saying that my position is irrelevant. Explain to us what relevance my position on polygamy has to your contradictory claim that opposite sex is a right to both gays and heteros but same sex marriage is not even though the applicability is exactly the same.
December 12, 2008
10:57 AM
BTW writes:
Md, so lets see - because the OT says "homosexual acts are the **looked at the same** as having sex with animals" then we are to suppose that granting same sex marriage rights will allow or cause "people to be able to marry their dogs and sheep".
Please show us the legal language that would allow this.
December 12, 2008
11:02 AM
BTW writes:
Md, so lets see - because the OT says "homosexual acts are the **looked at the same** as having sex with animals" then we are to suppose that granting same sex marriage rights will allow or cause "people to be able to marry their dogs and sheep".
Please show us the legal language that would allow this.
December 12, 2008
11:31 AM
GladysKravitz writes:
Shaggy writes:
"...I for one am sick of special interest groups trying to force their personal agendas on us."
Shaggy I can't agree with you more...especially those special interest right wing Christian Evangelical zealots who force their religious views on society as public policy.
December 12, 2008
11:54 AM
GldaysKravitz writes:
How does the same-sex couple prevent the stright couple from procreating??? Seems no one wants to answer that. The fact is that the so-called definition of marriage has been redefined and evolved for centuries in both sectarian and secular society. Marriage equality is the law in Canada, Europe, 3 states and in all cases those nations/states are stilling standing and the religious houses of worhip are too. So the religious folk who protest too much can relax. The religious folks can continue to adhere to their beliefs in the constructs of their religion, but leave my private civil, civic, secular liberities to me thank you very much. After all the pledge of alligiance says, "..with liberty and justice for all..."? Not some!
December 12, 2008
1:38 PM
Anonymous writes:
"The religious folks can continue to adhere to their beliefs in the constructs of their religion"
It ain't just the "religious folks" that don't want homos to marry sister.
December 14, 2008
7:59 AM
mikeg writes:
I find it facinating that those who are so uneducated in the bible, quote it. Even those who dispise its writings, quote it. If you do not understand the whole bible in context, you can find whatever you want. Jesus came to set us free from our sin, not condone it. Different food were discussed by the Apsl. Paul and he said you were set free. Paul also said adultery, lying, homosexuality, theft, fornication, drunkeness, coveting, etc. was still sin. Paul also said that a man will be the husband to one wife. changed from the early days. Summary: Jesus forgives the sin but still wants us to turn away from the sin and towards him. It is hard to have a good relationship with God when you are adulterous etc. You get the picture.
December 14, 2008
8:00 AM
mikeg writes:
I find it facinating that those who are so uneducated in the bible, quote it. Even those who dispise its writings, quote it. If you do not understand the whole bible in context, you can find whatever you want. Jesus came to set us free from our sin, not condone it. Different food were discussed by the Apsl. Paul and he said you were set free. Paul also said adultery, lying, homosexuality, theft, fornication, drunkeness, coveting, etc. was still sin. Paul also said that a man will be the husband to one wife. changed from the early days. Summary: Jesus forgives the sin but still wants us to turn away from the sin and towards him. It is hard to have a good relationship with God when you are adulterous etc. You get the picture.
December 14, 2008
8:06 AM
KDK writes:
To me a more interest point about this bible vs gays controversy is that those who want God removed from every aspect of their life,as well as everyone elses lifes, and criticize and blame people do follow God teachings are the ones using the bible and God to try to support their position. This tells me there is a God and that the bible is the word of God.
As for the paragraph from Lisa Miller's article,I have a question. Why do we jail polygamists today? The answer is in the bible by the way. As far as Paul's quote from the article, to me this is more an affirmation to allow priest to marry, then it is to allow gay's.
December 14, 2008
11:00 AM
jay writes:
kdk, you have to remember that superstitious beliefs are never justification for bigotry.
you also have to rememeber that discriminating against a group of people because of the way they're born is the text book definition of bigotry.
those are tough facts from which to run away.
December 14, 2008
11:55 AM
Anonymous writes:
. Why do we jail polygamists today?
If you're talking about Warren Jeffs it might be that those wives are 14 or younger.
December 15, 2008
7:29 AM
Jason Thompson writes:
Bottom line, the Bible DOES NOT, and I repeat, DOES NOT say anything about what is truely marriage and if gays are an abomination. Many biblical scholars have already proved this. There is "mention" against having a homosexual relationship, but that is in reference to what was going on with the Romans and other occupiers when the texts were being written. Notice however, how the Bible does not say anything about Lesbian activities. Remember, these texts were written by people being persecuted at the time, and they wanted to make sure that their followers didn't do the same thing as thier captors. The Jews, for the Old Testament, were being invaded and transported around Macendonia as slaves.
December 15, 2008
8:07 AM
Leave it alone writes:
Hey, guess what! All you hipocrates need to get a live, get out of the dark ages and evolve with the rest of the people who have evolved and live their lives! There is no reason why you have to sit on here blasting the gays and what they want or need. Wake up and smell your overpriced Starbucks coffee and realize that everyone has the rights to live and chose who they want to be with.
Oh and guess what, they bible was written by people who liked same sex relationships. Espically the men with little boys! It was part of their live-style.
Same as the Roman Empire times and in Britian during the same time period.
December 15, 2008
8:07 AM
Leave it alone writes:
Hey, guess what! All you hipocrates need to get a live, get out of the dark ages and evolve with the rest of the people who have evolved and live their lives! There is no reason why you have to sit on here blasting the gays and what they want or need. Wake up and smell your overpriced Starbucks coffee and realize that everyone has the rights to live and chose who they want to be with.
December 15, 2008
8:08 AM
Leave it alone writes:
Hey, guess what! All you hipocrates need to get a live, get out of the dark ages and evolve with the rest of the people who have evolved and live their lives! There is no reason why you have to sit on here blasting the gays and what they want or need. Wake up and smell your overpriced Starbucks coffee and realize that everyone has the rights to live and choose who they want to be with.
December 15, 2008
8:34 AM
Just a thought writes:
Just a thought about Paul
since he wrote alot of stuff.
Paul is the guy that was Saul of tarsus.
who used the book to persecute the jesus followers before becoming Paul.
Could it be his stuff is the stuff now being used to persecute Gays?
December 15, 2008
8:36 AM
Leave it alone writes:
Hey, guess what! All you hipocrates need to get a live, get out of the dark ages and evolve with the rest of the people who have evolved and live their lives! There is no reason why you have to sit on here blasting the gays and what they want or need. Wake up and smell your overpriced Starbucks coffee and realize that everyone has the rights to live and choose who they want to be with.
December 15, 2008
9:46 AM
Leave it alone writes:
Hey, guess what! All you hipocrates need to get a live, get out of the dark ages and evolve with the rest of the people who have evolved and live their lives! There is no reason why you have to sit on here blasting the gays and what they want or need. Wake up and smell your overpriced Starbucks coffee and realize that everyone has the rights to live and choose who they want to be with.
December 15, 2008
10:32 AM
Anonymous writes:
"realize that everyone has the rights to live and choose who they want to be with."
does this include dead bodies, children, animals?
December 15, 2008
11:30 AM
jay writes:
cruton at 10:32...we saw the same weak arguments from those who opposed interracial marriage.
how'd that turn out? have we seen that rash of folks marrying dead bodies after black and whites were allowed to marry?
December 15, 2008
1:06 PM
Ben- tutoring the ethically challenged ..again writes:
"how'd that turn out? have we seen that rash of folks marrying dead bodies after black and whites were allowed to marry?" jay
We also didn't see a rash of homosexuals marrying either.
December 15, 2008
1:19 PM
cassidy22 writes:
The bible is an outdated, overly translated, completely abused piece of fiction. Those who use it for a moral compass take ONLY the passages that support their personal agendas and use them.
According to MUCH of the bible, women are property and can be bought and sold. Is this a document I want to base my decisions on? Each and every passage in that book has a CONTEXT around it that is IGNORED by religious fundamentalists who want to push hatred onto other people.
I don't recall Jesus ever hating anyone. SO how do the overly religious who want to hate other people who are different from them support that with their bible?
I always thought the context of using the bible was to teach YOURSELF how to live a good life, following the Golden Rule. I don't ever remember that book trying to tell people to act self-righteous to other people, to treat other people poorly, or to hate other people because they are different than you. I also thought that PEOPLE were not supposed to pass judgement on other people - that was God's job. So how do you resolve that? Follow the Golden Rule, the 10 commandments, and what else can you ask for? I don't remember there being an 11th commandment "Thou Shalt Not be Gay" Sorry, folks, that one isn't in there. So take your misinterpreted bible and shove it. the God I learned about didn't teach hate. SO I choose to open myself up to accepting everyone for who they are, and realizing that in no way does a gay lifestyle threaten my own lifestyle, or my family. Live and let live.
December 15, 2008
1:43 PM
Anonymous writes:
Cassidy, No need to be a drama queen.
December 15, 2008
5:31 PM
jay writes:
benny, not sure what your point is.
we've debunked all your pathetic rationalizations for your bigotry against homosexuals.
are you just here to be the Pouting Troll or do you have some new material for us?
December 15, 2008
8:37 PM
Ben- I say Merry Christmas writes:
jay, I love slapping your silly ass around with your own reasoning.
December 15, 2008
8:37 PM
Craig Johannson writes:
I am all in favor of taking a litteral interpetation of the bible. You take it and I'll leave it. If I want to marry one woman or five and they will have me, YOUR bible says it is okay. If I choose to ignore your bible then I do. If I want to marry a man and I don't believe in your bible then it it on me, not you.
Keep your religion in your church! Don't legislate your religion or my legislature might just vote your religion out of existence. Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
BTW the "In god we trust" was only put on the money as a nose thumbing bit toward the commies. It has not always been there. The founding fathers would be turning over in their graves at the very thought of it. GO READ THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY BEFORE YOU CLAIM IT FOR YOUR GOD AND HIS/HER FOLLOWERS.
December 15, 2008
8:39 PM
Craig Johannson writes:
I am all in favor of taking a litteral interpetation of the bible. You take it and I'll leave it. If I want to marry one woman or five and they will have me, YOUR bible says it is okay. If I choose to ignore your bible then I do. If I want to marry a man and I don't believe in your bible then it it on me, not you.
Keep your religion in your church! Don't legislate your religion or my legislature might just vote your religion out of existence. Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
BTW the "In god we trust" was only put on the money as a nose thumbing bit toward the commies. It has not always been there. The founding fathers would be turning over in their graves at the very thought of it. GO READ THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY BEFORE YOU CLAIM IT FOR YOUR GOD AND HIS/HER FOLLOWERS.
December 15, 2008
8:40 PM
Craig Johannson writes:
I am all in favor of taking a litteral interpetation of the bible. You take it and I'll leave it. If I want to marry one woman or five and they will have me, YOUR bible says it is okay. If I choose to ignore your bible then I do. If I want to marry a man and I don't believe in your bible then it it on me, not you.
Keep your religion in your church! Don't legislate your religion or my legislature might just vote your religion out of existence. Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
BTW the "In god we trust" was only put on the money as a nose thumbing bit toward the commies. It has not always been there. The founding fathers would be turning over in their graves at the very thought of it. GO READ THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY BEFORE YOU CLAIM IT FOR YOUR GOD AND HIS/HER FOLLOWERS.
December 16, 2008
5:17 AM
Ben -aware of the gay agenda writes:
jaytroll, 1.
1.Quit your whining.
2.lol Sure, play dumb about being made to look stupid with your own reasoning.
3. You know all about bigotry don't you. Seeing as how how will attack Christians at any provocation.
4. Your beatings will be neverending here.