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December 19, 2008 12:01 AM

Torture Chamber

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The Torture Report is out, and it tells the story we've long suspected--that the authorization for extreme interrogation techniques came from the highest levels of government. Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzales, in particular, signed off on harsh treatment of detainees, despite warnings that what they were authorizing was, in fact, a violation of the Geneva Convention and of our own laws. They listened, instead, to crackpot legal theories put forth by David Addington, assistant to Vice President Cheney and Gonzales, which assigned to the president unprecedented wartime powers to ignore all standards of human decency this nation has subscribed to in war and peace throughout its history. This is one of the saddest chapters in all of American history. We're supposed to be the good guys. We're the good guys because we don't do what the bad guys do. If we do what the bad guys do, then we're the bad guys. You can argue with that, but I'm not listening. I just hope that Obama has the courage to investigate his predecessors and demand not only accountability, but also justice, even if it means putting our nation's war criminals on trial.



Discussion

  • December 19, 2008

    5:56 PM

    AlanY writes:

    Ed, Can't disagree with a word of your blog. But I suspect some of your readers might think your face should be on that dart board! I imagine many of them read your political cartoon and blog just to get some adrenaline flowing. They certainly don't seem in the mood for a rational discussion based on comments to previous blogs.

  • December 19, 2008

    5:57 PM

    AlanY writes:

    Ed, Can't disagree with a word of your blog. But I suspect some of your readers might think your face should be on that dart board! I imagine many of them read your political cartoon and blog just to get some adrenaline flowing. They certainly don't seem in the mood for a rational discussion based on comments to previous blogs.

  • December 19, 2008

    5:58 PM

    AlanY writes:

    d, Can't disagree with a word of your blog. But I suspect some of your readers might think your face should be on that dart board! I imagine many of them read your political cartoon and blog just to get some adrenaline flowing. They certainly don't seem in the mood for a rational discussion based on comments to previous blogs.

  • December 19, 2008

    6:15 PM

    Ike writes:

    Typically I try to not criticize an artist's work. However don't you think instead of the George W. Bush Presidential Library and in light of what and how our Economy has come to the state it is in perhaps a G.W. Bush Adult Book Store and Arcade would be more appropriate? Since his Administration will be in the history books for it and considering what was done to We the People and our National Economy, we ought to be able to at least look at the pictures.

  • December 19, 2008

    7:12 PM

    LetsThink writes:

    Mr. Stein continues to attack President Bush.

    This is one reason that the RMN is failing financially. Conservatives expect better balance in the newspaper they help pay for.

  • December 19, 2008

    7:39 PM

    peterpi writes:

    LetsThink, the same First Amendment that protects your religious views protects Ed Stein's right to voice his opinion in an editorial cartoon and the RMN's right to publish it. If you're looking for objective news from editorial cartoons, you need a refresher course in remedial reading. If you want editorial cartoons that support your viewpoint, try Mallard Fillmore
    We don't have a Dear Leader here. We don't have a Tsar, a Fuehrer, a King, and Emperor For Life. Ed Stein can mock George Bush and condemn his policies all he wants.
    But don't worry: After January 20, critics will draw editorial cartoons mocking President Obama and you'll be happy.

  • December 20, 2008

    9:50 AM

    Bill Sluka writes:

    Your one-sided, leftist cartoons are appalling. What ever happened to balanced news reporting??

  • December 20, 2008

    9:52 AM

    CPT M Mackay writes:

    This is the most dishonest cartoon I have ever seen, just what part stein's imagination did the torture chamber come from? That is a downright dishonest. While the rest of us have been kept safe since 9-11 by places like Guantanamo apparently stein would have preferred to be sending "flowers" to the terrorists until they beheaded him.

  • December 20, 2008

    3:44 PM

    Penpal writes:

    Have any of you guys actually READ the torture report, which details not only the torture at both places, but also demonstrates conclusively how those at the highest levels of OUR government knowingly agreed to interrogation techniques they knew to be illegal. As Stein said, we're supposed to be the good guys because we've agreed not to do these things. If you are disgusted with anyone, it should be Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales.

  • December 20, 2008

    3:47 PM

    No 2 pencil writes:

    If objecting to torture means you're a leftist, then I assume you think approving of it must be a conservative value. Call me a left-winger, then.

  • December 20, 2008

    6:22 PM

    Lalas writes:

    Bill Sluka -- the right-wing media is griping about this (false) meme of the Dems reinstating the Fairness Doctrine and here you are whining about being a victim without it. LOL! Did you know Fox News won a lawsuit saying that a news organization has the right to lie to its viewers?

    CPT Mackay -- Your black & white world is pretty silly. Our ONLY two options are to either torture people or give them flowers? Seems to me you're giving me permission to torture you since I don't feel like giving you flowers.

    The biggest problem with righties is that you have no shades of gray.

  • December 20, 2008

    7:07 PM

    Dave writes:

    The Torture is not just in Cuba and abroad but here in the good old USA as well. There are thousands and thousands of men, women and children, (and even pregnant women) being tortured by microwave weapons, synthetic telepathy and organized gang stalking every hour of every day...Read The Dark Side by Jane Mayer and then do a google search on organized stalking, gang stalking, electronic harassment, microwave torture, and you'll see that we have become the very nazi fascists we "defeated" in WWII. Why? Look up Operation Paperclip or MKULTRA or COINTELPRO and you'll see that torture and fascism has been alive and well in America since at least the end of WWII.
    Dave Stout, Westcliffe, Colorado

  • December 21, 2008

    11:36 AM

    jay writes:

    there seems to be still be some confusion on the far right.

    republican policies have made our country LESS SAFE over he last 8 years.

    they have decimated our military.

    they have crippled us fiscally.

    refusing to acknowledge those facts isn't an option any longer.

    it's time to take some responsibility and hold your party accountable for their mistakes...as the rest of the country did at the polls in 06 and 08.

  • December 21, 2008

    8:01 PM

    Freda Borden writes:

    Never mind that he isn't violating the Geneva convention since the Taliban prisoners are not a uniformed army of any country in the world. They are terrorists and mercenaries. Of course where does truth fit in when it a Liberal cartoonist is plucking at heartstrings. Ohhhhhhh weeeeeeep for Taliban murderers and terrorists that have endured such "torture" as laying of the talmud on a sink, constant light, and barry manilow music.

  • December 22, 2008

    12:35 PM

    mike lyman writes:

    I see Mr. Stein is still suffering from Bush Deraingment Syndrome. There has never been any evidence that W. knew what was going on in Abu Graib, and it was not torture anyway. Put some underwear on my head, rather than what happened to Daniel Pearl! Gitmo prisoners were treated well for the most part, lots of food, most gained weight, given Qurans etc.
    Lets see if you cover Obama's Chicago mob connections, and maybe you can start by looking for Obama's real birth certificate?
    ML

  • December 22, 2008

    6:13 PM

    SL writes:

    What's sad about this whole situation is that America will never know how many addtional 9/11's were probably prevented by "torturing" these scum. (Trust me, they would just as soon cut your children's head off and publish it on the internet). I spent 6 months in Iraq defending Mr. Stein's right to publish his "cartoons", and personally, this one disgusts me. Sadly, it's going take another 9/11 to wake America up. We've grown soft, and I pray that it doesn't happen to my family in my town. I'm sure that a dirty bomb going off in Mile High stadium would change a lot of people's minds.

  • December 22, 2008

    9:33 PM

    Locke writes:

    SL,

    Is that a threat? Your conservative "friends" at the FBI are probably watching. Think before you write, though I'll defend your right not to have to.

  • December 23, 2008

    5:44 AM

    Ike writes:

    Mr. Lyman, I never saw George Bush's or Ronald Raygun's birth certificates either. Is there a secret clause in the Constitution that requires the POTUS show his birth certificate before taking office? It was good enough for the Supreme Court but not good enough for the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists.

    I personally believe that (heavy sarcasm intended) that Ronald Raygun was a space alien hybrid, should looked at the cotton pickin' birth certificate of his! Probably stamped in the Clerk and Recorder's Office on Antares.

  • December 24, 2008

    3:08 PM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    Jay; how has Bush "decimated" our military? Has US military power decreased by 10%? (the definition of "decimation").

    Contrarily, the military has GROWN under Bush's leadership.

    As for fiscally crippling us; you are right, he didn't control spending like he had if he were an actual conservative; instead, he used deficit spending just like a democrat...

  • December 24, 2008

    3:08 PM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    Jay; how has Bush "decimated" our military? Has US military power decreased by 10%? (the definition of "decimation").

    Contrarily, the military has GROWN under Bush's leadership.

    As for fiscally crippling us; you are right, he didn't control spending like he had if he were an actual conservative; instead, he used deficit spending just like a democrat...

  • December 25, 2008

    10:26 AM

    Gary Roulston writes:

    You for one better hope justice is never ever levied. You are why we as a Nation are headed for anarchy and fighting here in America. I have taken the time to read the reports and look at the evidence. I put up with worse that the things you decry to get through Jr High and High School and nobody called it torture then. If good men do not stand up to the bad then the bad will murder us all in our beds. You claim we should treat these fools like criminals. when they ignore the international laws of warfare! Should shoot them like Geneva Convention allows.

  • December 29, 2008

    10:52 AM

    Ralph A LaPaugh writes:

    This "cartoon" of the Bush library puts you in the
    same league as "Hanoi Jane" and that nut Cindy
    Shehan!!! If I was President, you would be up aagainst a wall this afternoon!!! You are a sstinking TRAITOR, and I am soooo happy your
    left-wing rag is going under!!! It is because
    of pukes like you that newspapers and broadcast
    TV news is going down the toilet!! But don't
    fret, SARAH PALIN will save this country in
    2012!!!!!!!!!

  • December 29, 2008

    11:03 AM

    Lalas writes:

    LOL! Funny stuff there Ralph. Truly precious.

  • December 30, 2008

    8:01 AM

    Ike writes:

    Pretty strong condemnation there, Ted. Which Democratic President are you comparing the Dubya to? From all the facts I can glean the Sitting Shrub is head and shoulders above any other President in the written history of the Nation in Deficit Spending. Period.

    I agree with Ralph, Palin/Quayle in 2012! That would be the GOP Dream Ticket and a sure winner.

  • December 30, 2008

    10:23 AM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    Ike, you obviously have a hard time sifting commentary, probably relying too much on mindless mediocres like the Rocky, so I'll spell it out VERY simply for you.

    We grass-roots republicans have been pushing for our leaders to CONTROL spending and people like Bush lied to us and said that they would, but didn't. After the republican Congress of the 1990s forced a balanced budget, we had hoped to not just stem the growth of government and spending but to reduce both and people like Bush lied and promised that they would. Instead, what we all know we got, was a free-wheeling overspender in Bush, Boehner and Lott who completely destroyed the foundation of their success - the promise of smaller, less-expensive government. Bush, Boehner and Lott tried to out spend democrats to gain votes and lost all credibility and power, as well they should have - being the liars that they are.

    On the other hand, we have decades of history of spending habits of Democrats proving that that party has had absolutely NO INTEREST in balanced budgets, EVER - let alone shrinking government.

  • December 30, 2008

    9:36 PM

    jay writes:

    ted, that bs just doesn't fly.

    you've been voting against your own best interests since eisenhower.

    http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

    furthermore, why don't you do some research on how conservative policies have decimated our military...this ain't exactly breaking news.

  • December 31, 2008

    4:31 AM

    Ike writes:

    Still doesn't fly here either, Ted. My direct question to you once again is, to whom are you comparing Bush to prove your statement? 7 and a half trillion dollar increase in the National Deficit is enough to make me dizzy and leave our Nation reeling on its economic knees. While not a formal student of political history a run up that exceeds Dumbya's number we all would've noticed. Folks like you would've made sure we all knew about a former spendthrift Democratic Administration long before now.

  • December 31, 2008

    12:55 PM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    OK, how about FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, and Carter? Keep in mind also that none of Clinton's proposed budgets would have balanced during his presidency had the Republican Congress not cut his proposals down to size...

    Geez, Ike, I didn't know you were so ignorant of political-economic history...

    Jay, you must be stupid if you're actually and trully challenging me to disprove a negative. You might as well ask me to disprove that fairies don't exist...

    You're not trully telling me that Reagan was bad for the military, are you? Bush Jr. has trully let down and lied to conservatives on economic issues but he has been trully good for the military and far better than the former coward-in-chief Clinton (the only President I can think of who made a habit of running away from victory).

  • December 31, 2008

    4:32 PM

    Ike writes:

    Takes five Democrats to equal one "good for the military" Republican is it, Ted? His other accomplishment are the largest Social Entitlement program since Social Security does not count? Socializing the bank system of this nation with 700 billion in borrowed Chinese money is a positive? The miracles he is working with the auto makers also good for our Nation? An actual tax cut in a time of war is another brilliant economic move. The list continues ad nauseum but not much point in explaining Dubya's fobiles and folly for you. Again.

    Oh well, at least he didn't have any of the interns on their knees, sigh. That is one good point to find I guess. The more dubious honor is still Reagan's with the largest increase in the National Deficit in peacetime. Oh wait, can't forget the war on Grenada and Panama, can we? But then we have to include the bombing of the USMC barracks in Bierut and Reagan's tepid and limp wristed response to the murder of 274 of our military.


    Your previous statements still don't fly but we are all used to your ad hominem arguments by this time and it is always entertaining. The Best of the New Year to you and yours, Ted!

  • January 2, 2009

    10:47 AM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    Umm, Ike, can you follow a logical thought?

    I was addressing Bush's Military Policy, not his economic policy - which is too democratic-partyish for me.

    As for Reagan, he lamented his own weak response but understood that to have made a stronger response would have forced us to pull troops from Europe (eventually) and could cost us the Cold War. Read his memoirs, he saw the Beirut situation as need to lose a battle in order to win the war; a decent strategy when the situation warrants.

    Clinton on the other hand almost won Somalia but ran away from victory, comdeming millions to continued poverty and slavery and throwing away the lives of our troops who died to gain that vicotry that he ran away from.

  • January 5, 2009

    10:10 PM

    jay writes:

    "I was addressing Bush's Military Policy, not his economic policy - which is too democratic-partyish for me."

    nope. sorry ted, we've already debunked this myth above.

    bush's economic policies mirrored those of the last several conservative presidents.

    you just can't put lipstick on the pig.

    nice try.

  • January 6, 2009

    5:49 AM

    Schnauzer writes:

    Just more of Steins personal hatred for our President. FORMER long-time subscriber who cancelled due to seeing crap like this in my FORMERLY great newspaper every day. Good luck with un-employment Stein!!

  • January 6, 2009

    10:57 AM

    Ted in Vegas writes:

    Jay: Blind assertions do not a good argument make. Please stop, you're embarrasing yourself.

    Ike: I was pointing out that Bush, on economics and spending, has more in common with demonrats than with grassroots republicans. The five democrat presidents I listed all engaged in deficit spending just like Bush; they're all economically ignorant.

  • January 7, 2009

    6:53 AM

    Ike writes:

    Shame that the six years of Republican control in both Houses couldn't restrain the Dubya from spending as you believe they held back Clinton. Perhaps the economic track record you say is similar to what you claim the Democratic one is part of the Bush Compassionate Conservatism that the history books will give due credit to him for. Sorry Ted, you have to own the Bush policies in total or you are no better than a Moderate picking and choosing.

  • January 9, 2009

    10:11 AM

    jay writes:

    nope, ted, you're still not going to be able to lie and make the case that bush was somehow different than past conservative presidents (since Ike anyway)

    nice try though...you're getting really good at the willful ignorance dance.

    http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

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    12:43 AM

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    There is no such thing as unbias media. It is all leftist now and presented as fact. If you disagree you are just "ignorant."

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    Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

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  • September 21, 2011

    6:20 PM

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    If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

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  • September 22, 2011

    8:54 PM

    Hipolito M. Wiseman writes:

    If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

  • September 23, 2011

    2:56 AM

    Andrew A. Sailer writes:

    I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)

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    Andrew Pelt writes:

    Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.

  • September 29, 2011

    12:02 PM

    Andrew Pelt writes:

    Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.

  • September 30, 2011

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    Matthew C. Kriner writes:

    Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

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  • October 8, 2011

    1:46 PM

    Gregory Despain writes:

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  • October 9, 2011

    10:40 PM

    Tyson F. Gautreaux writes:

    Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

  • October 10, 2011

    9:38 PM

    Gregory Despain writes:

    The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

  • October 11, 2011

    3:13 PM

    Tyson F. Gautreaux writes:

    Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.

  • October 11, 2011

    7:23 PM

    Hipolito M. Wiseman writes:

    Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.

  • October 12, 2011

    8:55 PM

    Hipolito M. Wiseman writes:

    Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.

  • October 16, 2011

    12:10 AM

    Matthew C. Kriner writes:

    Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

  • November 2, 2011

    1:48 AM

    Jack Finco writes:

    Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.

  • November 3, 2011

    3:31 AM

    tarot sms writes:

    The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

  • November 5, 2011

    7:02 AM

    tarot visa writes:

    Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.

  • November 6, 2011

    4:41 AM

    tarot writes:

    Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.

  • November 6, 2011

    4:41 AM

    tarot por telefono writes:

    If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

  • November 6, 2011

    4:41 AM

    tarot writes:

    Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.

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    1:33 AM

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